[SPF2245]

Gunner, that is the problem with historians...most have never spent a day outside a classroom. I define win as beat the enemy on the battle field, remove the former Gov't which had caused the conflict and put in power a new Gov't. Then you get the heck out of dodge. We seem to have forgot how to do the last two items, maybe because the precedent was set with Pres. Johnson to not allow a strong "Eisenhower" type to control the conflict which would have made a new national hero to replace the idiot Democrates in power at that time. But wait, no one want's to talk about that in history...'cause it's not written in any book, but the feelings of soldiers then and now. Last time I checked, McNamara thought you could win a battle by controlling "X" number of bullets fired, used math formulas of body counts to figure out how to win, gave soldiers an untested weapon to use in combat (and then required it and it's ammo changed to control costs), yep...classic book smart kid put in a place he had no business being in. Result, one lost war. Next example?