[undy]

Originally Posted by David Biele

We have impregnated aluminum castings before with great success, but your passes the leak test.

Regardless, I am still planning on sending the intake off for the impregnation. No stone will remain unturned...

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Dude, you get an 'A' for thoroughness.

My last gasp at this one is the gaskets although those look like my Victor Nitro-Seals (which helped cure my problem).

Barry now uses MLS FelPros which he probably helped design- the key being the layers. The standard FelPros have no lasting integrity in street use with green coolant. You using green stuff?

I'm using Keith's old paper intake gaskets that he had laser cut for his Ebok stage IIs. He's since contracted with Cometic to custom make the same gaskets. He said he moved to the Cometics due to gasket failures with the other style. I didn't ask any particulars, I will today though. That being said, I talked to Shelly @ KCR and have a set of cometics on the way. Even though the intake gaskets were crushed good and showed no signs of the infamous "Felpro gasket creep" I did notice that the gasket around the two coolant ports were sort of "mushy". I guess the coolant could have worked it's way between the paper layers to the oil side of the intake?? The Cometics, according to Keith, have a hard core. I really hate to yank the heads or the whole engine for that matter.

I use the green coolant... Maybe Dexcool's in my future.

Originally Posted by madmaxx

You stupid sheet. You are lucky to be alive. WTF, you are creating a grenade with those type of pressures. Cast aluminum to boot.

More drama than fact I'm afraid... I've been doing this stuff professionally for 40 years. Evidently you were snoozing during your engineering "Strengths of Materials" classes

Originally Posted by cdnus

Just out of curiosity, what procedure are you using with the nitrogen pressure test?
EG.--apply pressure, close the supply valve, observe the pressure Gauge over a period of time.

I have had good results with water rather than a gas. Using a gas will not indicate a small leak as readily because it is compressible whereas water is not & will show a minute loss immediately.
The other benefit is the water is visible--even 1 drop.

Craig

The intake gaskets started to lift/seep minutely around 60 psi so I kept the regulator set at a constant 100/150 psi to maintain pressure. I've got quite a variety of HVAC leak detection equipment (electronics and liquid) and it all failed to show any signs of leaks. BTW... the entire area that could possibly leak water into the oil is entirely visible so there's no mystery there.

A nitrogen molecule is much smaller than a water molecule. Trust me, nitrogen will show it before water does.

Originally Posted by Wbulk

I agree with Olddog. Since you didn't say anything about white smoke coming out the exhaust I would be looking now for a leak from a gasket first and next a crack. A crack could be anywhere in the engine but be evidenced by the milky substance in valve covers. As the coolant heats up and turns to steam it rises and you can usually see it in the valve covers. When you pulled the intake what did the gaskets look like. It's all evidence to finding the problem. Look for the small tell tale signs. You may have to pull the heads and go further.

No smoke, nada... There's nothing entering the combustion chamber, just traces in the oil. I'm getting the froth in both valve covers, naturally more so in the valve cover where the PVC is (all vapor/air currents normally flow in the direction of the PCV).

I may well end up pulling the heads, next weekend's chore. The blank flanges I made for the intake pressure test will work on them too. The gaskets (both times I pulled the intake) looked fine, perfect in fact. As I said earlier I plan on talking to Keith as to why he abandoned the "old style" intake gaskets. That may be the answer to my dilemma (fingers crossed).

Originally Posted by olddog

Interesting point, however gas molecules are much smaller than liquid molecules. Therefore a gas may pass through a tiny crack that a liquid cannot. It just takes more time for the gas pressure to drop.

True dat!

Originally Posted by Ronbo

Perhaps it's not the front passages...

Even though they don't go anywhere, don't forget the two coolant ports in the back. (jamming a modded freeze plug in those back ports or epoxying (JB weld) them off wouldn't hurt)

On re-assembly, give the intake gaskets a good coat of "high tack". (the nasty red stuff from permatex) Make sure you let this stuff set up a day or two before putting coolant back in.

http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...et_Sealant.htm

Have you checked the entire intake face with a straight edge to verify there is no warping? As asked previously, both covers?

Also some coolant dye might help here.

Interesting thought on the rear coolant passages. I'll look further into the possibility.

The intake's face is perfect on both sides. Gasket crush was uniform and just what it should be on both sides.

It's internal so coolant dye is useless, other than telling me I've a leak somewhere (which I already know...)

Originally Posted by vector1

it's weird that it started when you replaced the intake, then discovered the intake had issues and fixed that, yet it continues.

can you replace all the parts without gaskets and determine if the angle or clearance between parts is acceptable?

if everything looks good here and things are installed properly you will have to look elsewhere.

next time you get everything together, and I guess you have changed the oil a couple times, and after eliminating all other possibilities, I would put some pressure into the cooling system with coolant installed of course, and if you can drop the oil pan I would look at the bottom of the cylinders where the liners meet the block and see if there are any leaks.

just a thought, don't know if this is a possibility, or maybe you will be able to see if there is a leak coming from somewhere else, or at a minimum you will be able to tell if it is holding. of course if this is happening only when hot, that complicates things, but aluminum does expand quite a bit more then the steel liners.

Trust me, all the possibilities scares the He!! out of me. I guess if I'm not convinced otherwise the heads are the next step... then the short block.

Originally Posted by Wbulk

Looking at the picture of the valley the oil looks normal. I believe this leak is very, very small, and is turning to steam before it can run down to get into the oil. If it were a larger leak you would have milky engine oil, but you don't.

That's all true... The leak is getting no larger, even from the first time it appeared over a year ago. That sure doesn't point to a gasket, more so a crack or porosity.

Originally Posted by olddog

Dear Nucking Futs,

You have fallen to the old magicians trick. You have been focused on the left hand and did not see what the right hand was doing.

The intake is no longer the problem, but you were zeroed in on it like a hawk on a mouse.

Are the two valve covers identical in the milk shake? If one is worse, I suspect that head is leaking up into the valve cover area. If they are identical, I would suspect that a head gasket is leaking into the oil area some where. Is there any indication (milk shake) in the lifter gallery.

Also be careful with the nitrogen. One lung full and your dead.

That's what I'm afraid of... It just doesn't fit the mold for a gasket type leak. There's no signs of moisture present other than what's in the valve covers, the valley and top of the heads are milk shake free.

Most of the air we breath is composed of Nitrogen... Now my flagellant self.. that's a different story.

Originally Posted by olddog

Since I never had an FE apart myself, I been studying these pictures and the sequence of events that you described. The oil drain back holes at the four corners of the heads is very close to the water ports. Also one of the intake bolts is close to that area. If there is a crack in that area, torquing the intake bolts might aggravate it. Look hard it that area.

Pull the water pump. Block off the water pump ports and the head ports, and pressure test at a reasonable pressure. I would think 25 psi would be enough. I bet I doesn't hold.

CDNUS has an excellent point on water can be seen. You could fill it up with water and then pressurize it with the bottle. You might see it that way if the leak is up top.

If it is the head gasket leaking into the oil that flows up to the rockers, it could only leak water in when the oil pressure is less than the water pressure. Like when the engine is off. Therefore it makes sense that at high rpm (high oil pressure) it is pumping oil into the water. Check the water for oil.

I'm leaning more towards and entire engine pressure test, as you mention. There' been no oil in the coolant. I kept a close check on that.

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

Undy Dave it's 3:37am. Back hurts bad. Is that a crack in picture #4 between the opening to the water jacket of the manifold? The other thing is what is the slot for going to the edge of the manifold or bolt hole? That cracks looks bad and heading in the right direction.
My testing and looking at the cream in the motor is intake failure or gasket, small leak. You have the plates made for pressure testing. Big kettle with water and heat to about 190f. Watch for air bubbles. I think you will find them. Rick L.

Rick, Rick, Rick... You're getting old before your time. It's old fartz like me that's supposed to be messed up.. I hope you start feeling better bud.

No crack, just some vagrant RTV. The slot goes no where. Anyway, it didn't leak during the pressure test.

The manifold was preheated to 240 deg uniformly and nothing was present at 150 psi. I don't think a kettle will do anything for me... other than cook dinner.