[PatBuckley]

I also like the idea of taking the car to a big parking lot and going a little crazy with it.....

Cranky is right about the difference between instructors and drivers......at my first drivers school I had a hero who spent most of the day bragging about how fast he was and telling us all kinds of stories about his (as it turned out) way too ambitious braking points....specifically I remember him telling me that turn 1 at Road America was a flat in 4th gear turn......it turned out that it may have been in his car as his car was bog slow but trying it in anything remotely competitive was a sure crash. A real dunce.