427 Side-oiler - approx. horsepower?

[elmariachi]

So all other things being equal, what affect do you think adding two 4-barrels in place of a single 750 would have on the same 450 HP side oiler?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

So all other things being equal, what affect do you think adding two 4-barrels in place of a single 750 would have on the same 450 HP side oiler?

Two four barrels will give you more horsepower, but you lose the benefit of the center hung floats. You also lose the beautiful Turkey Pan.

[vector1]

well just to verify and vilify, you all got me thinking, and i plugged numbers into eap.

using stock stroke & bore (not likely), the small edelbrock al performer heads (there is a larger size), stock dual plane intake with engine heat, crane cam that specified 10-1 compression, 10.5-1 compression, peak tq was 474 at 4500, peak hp was 467 at 5500. this is conservative.

larger edelbrock head showed 483/472 with no other changes,

stock 428 cj head showed 462/450 with no other changes,

large valve 302 boss heads showed less power yet.

and jeez man, this is the 429/460 forum. if you had one of those you'd be making a ton of power! hah, take that all you fe-aphiles.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Two four barrels will give you more horsepower, but you lose the benefit of the center hung floats.

There are no curves in south Texas so I can handle that.

Originally Posted by patrickt

You also lose the beautiful Turkey Pan.

Didn't have one yet anyway.

Originally Posted by vector1

peak tq was 474 at 4500, peak hp was 467 at 5500. this is conservative.

I have a fresh 427 SO, 4.250 bore, 9.8:1 compression, Comp 294S flat tappet (.605 lift), a set of new-out-of-the-box unworked medium riser heads, Erson roller rockers, Le Mans rotating assembly, Sidewinder intake and a 750 Mighty Demon and it made 451HP and 482 ft lbs of torque at the flywheel on a bonafide NHRA engine dyno. Plug that into your eap and tell me what it says. The software will claim much more.

[Ibr8k4vetts]

Someone on FE.com not to long ago built stock 427 and dyno it and I believe it was in the 460 to 470hp range.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Gunner

I can't see cam alone adding ca. 130 horsepower. Cams only make the most of the other parts, and Shelby was already making an awful lot from those bits. The only engines I've seen with ~550HP have significant additions beginning with substantial improvements in displacement and breathing on top of an optimized cam.

I built a period correct 427 comp emgine. Bored 0.017", stock stroke, 429 ci (stock displacement was actually 426). Original style (Dove) hi-riser heads, mildly ported, original (NOS) intake, original holley 780 vac-sec carb, however a reduced CR of 10.5 to 1. I installed a solid roller cam though, .670 lift.

Never dynoed the engine itself, only a chassis dyno, got 454 hp and still climbing, and max torque 488 at the wheels. A Roush 427R, on the same chassis dyno, put out 415 hp ( and still climbing) and 435 torque ( advertised at 550 hp, 535 TQ at flywheel).

Here's a picture of the engine.




Here's my chassis dyno.




Here's the best (tuned but not altered) Roush 427R chassis dyno.

[Ibr8k4vetts]

Anthony,
Can you tell me what cam you went with? Thank you.
ps was it hyd or solid?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ibr8k4vetts

Anthony,
Can you tell me what cam you went with? Thank you.
ps was it hyd or solid?

Comp Cams # 33-000-9 Grind 6874F / 4875F SR110 ( solid roller )
Lift Intake .670 Exhaust .677
Duration @ .050 Int 242 Ex 248

[lineslinger]

I would venture to say you could boil the tires with that configuration...but please, don't let me put a crimp in opinon's...there is always good information to be considered.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Comp Cams # 33-000-9 Grind 6874F / 4875F SR110 ( solid roller )

*sigh*. Now list all the CSX3xxx cars that had roller cams...

[lineslinger]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Two four barrels will give you more horsepower, but you lose the benefit of the center hung floats. You also lose the beautiful Turkey Pan.

All a twin set of 750's does is try to rev higher, the pursuit was horsepower. It worked. I'll take the juice over the aesthetics.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by lineslinger

All a twin set of 750's does is try to rev higher.

Um, don't you typically use a pair of 450s?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Gunner

*sigh*. Now list all the CSX3xxx cars that had roller cams...

Duh.

The point is that if my engine made 550+ Hp with a roller cam, I bet a solid flat tappet would be about 30-40 HP less, still at the 500 hp level.

[Ibr8k4vetts]

Originally Posted by Gunner

Um, don't you typically use a pair of 450s?

I believe bk/bj are 550's.

[Ibr8k4vetts]

Anthony,
How well dose that cam idle or dose it?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Gunner

*sigh*. Now list all the CSX3xxx cars that had roller cams...

Good stuff, I had a nice laugh late at night.

You gotta love pure unadulterated speculation.

[undy]

Originally Posted by Ibr8k4vetts

I believe bk/bj are 550's.

Actually 600s, they were used a lot on Shelby's Mustangs .. and maybe the 428 and a few 427 Cobras. The BC-BDs (715 cfms) made it into the comp 427s. Carl's Ford has an exclusive deal with Holley and they continue to manufacture exacts copies of the BK-BJs and the BC-BDs expressly for Carl's Ford. I almost went with a set intead of having Quickfuel build me a pair of tricked out 750s.

[undy]

Originally Posted by fonti

I am looking at a Cobra with a 427 Side-oiler. Has the following parts:
ford 427 steel crank, all ford parts, ford solid lifter cam, ford pistons, Le Mans rods, Le mans dist, Le Mans carburator, ford side
winder aluminum intake, with edelbrock aluminum heads , 10.25 compression

About how many Horses are we talking here? Thank you! Peter

Originally Posted by Gunner

I don't think so. Not at stock displacement and with original cam, heads (more or less) and only a slightly improved intake.

Gunner, you changed the OP's wording from "Ford solid lifter cam" and substituted your own assumption, "original cam". They're not necessarily one and the same. Let's see, if I recall ... Ford had several "hot" solid lifter FE cams that was available across the parts counter of your local Ford dealerships. In fact, I think they were Shelby sourced cams that were sold by Ford with Ford part numbers. One of those cams could qualify as the OP's "Ford solid lifter cam". Depending on the profile it would render more than stock, hence the 500 +/-.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by undy

Gunner, you changed the OP's wording from "Ford solid lifter cam" and substituted your own assumption, "original cam". They're not necessarily one and the same. Let's see, if I recall ... Ford had several "hot" solid lifter FE cams that was available across the parts counter of your local Ford dealerships. In fact, I think they were Shelby sourced cams that were sold by Ford with Ford part numbers. One of those cams could qualify as the OP's "Ford solid lifter cam". Depending on the profile it would render more than stock, hence the 500 +/-.

Hopefully it doesn't have anything more potent than the over-the-counter "K" cam (which is what I have). That's about as far as you want to go with a Ford solid lifter cam and still enjoy it on the street. The next step up to that cam was the "B" cam, which kept the same lobes, but brought the separation angle in closer together. He won't like that. The last step up from that was the "D" cam. He doesn't have it; nor would he want it. I really, really like my old school "K" cam, but cams have come a long way in 40 years. A word of caution though when you're surfing the 'net on FE cams. There is more wrong information on the specs than there is right. There are typos that get replicated down the line. Durations are confused from seat-to-seat to other lifts, etc. Some specs include the lash, others forget it. Some cam specs are based on 1.73, others on 1.76, and so on. But the real truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter if he has 485 horsepower or 425 horsepower -- he won't be able to tell the difference excpept on a dyno.

[vector1]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

There are no curves in south Texas so I can handle that.



Didn't have one yet anyway.



I have a fresh 427 SO, 4.250 bore, 9.8:1 compression, Comp 294S flat tappet (.605 lift), a set of new-out-of-the-box unworked medium riser heads, Erson roller rockers, Le Mans rotating assembly, Sidewinder intake and a 750 Mighty Demon and it made 451HP and 482 ft lbs of torque at the flywheel on a bonafide NHRA engine dyno. Plug that into your eap and tell me what it says. The software will claim much more.

these are the same specs the other guy has engine-wise, he has more compression, i used the same cam, same intake, same carb. looks like your numbers are inflated. i'll take the newer edelbrock aluminum heads over your unworked medium riser heads anyday.