Oil problem solved

[barabar]

Did exactly what that person stated on 460ford.com said to do, after he pulled his engine 6 times to repair his oil leak. I put about a .012 crush when I bolted up the rear main cap and didn't use RTV on the seal mating sufaces, also trimmed off the tabs because when you seat the seal in the grooves the lip of the seal will have a flat spot in it. Then ran the engine for about 2 hours on the test stand, not even a seep. Don't worry about that seal spinning in the groove, if that happens you have bigger problems then seal spin. I did mic the crank grooves, 1970 dove 4 bolt, D9T, Scat crank and stock crank came up with different measurements.
Bottom line---you have to machine that rear two peice main seal accordingly.

[jetsbaby]

Originally Posted by barabar

Did exactly what that person stated on 460ford.com said to do, after he pulled his engine 6 times to repair his oil leak. I put about a .012 crush when I bolted up the rear main cap and didn't use RTV on the seal mating sufaces, also trimmed off the tabs because when you seat the seal in the grooves the lip of the seal will have a flat spot in it. Then ran the engine for about 2 hours on the test stand, not even a seep. Don't worry about that seal spinning in the groove, if that happens you have bigger problems then seal spin. I did mic the crank grooves, 1970 dove 4 bolt, D9T, Scat crank and stock crank came up with different measurements.
Bottom line---you have to machine that rear two peice main seal accordingly.

I will also be pulling my engine this weekend for the same problem..Why did you not use RTV on the ends of the seal?? Was your total crush .012 total or was that for each half??? I read the same post on 460ford.com

[barabar]

.012 is the total crush. The person on 460ford.com stated .010 to .015. The reason I went with .012 because that seemed to me how a one piece seal lip rides on a shaft. The shop manual states to soak the seal in oil, I think that is to much. I used assembly lube on the whole seal and installed it. Remember to check the diameter of your crank before you start. I just machined one side of the seal surfaces and bent the seal to acommodate the diameter of the crank. I didn't use RTV because the friction of the crank will dislodge it from the seal mating suface and then it will stick at the bottom of the seal lip causing a leak. I highly recommend you practice on your old seal, because when your done this should look like a one piece seal. Absolutely no gaps at the mating sufaces. The degree of bevel at the mating suface has to correspond to the diameter of the crank. Remember we are trying to seal oil with a two piece seal.
Remember what Chip says," Pay Attention to Detail."
I really don,t think this was one of Ford's better ideas.
GOOD LUCK!

[jetsbaby]

Is this what you read??? If so total seal crush is .020 to .030 TOTAL.. The 010 to .015 is PER half of the seal..You may have not have enough total seal crush with just .012. Over time you may develop a leak because the seal will wear a little and loosen up and spin on the crank..Here is the complete thread for you to read..http://460ford.com/forum/showthread....ferrerid=25042

You must pay attention to the "small" details as well or they will become "BIG" problems in the end. I personally would do over your seal with a total crush of .020 to .030 to be safe..

Just an update on my oil leak situation here. I believe that I have found the problem!!!! After looking at things very closely in the rear seal area, I noticed a weird wear pattern on the bearing located in the rear cap. The wear pattern was located only on the front half of the bearing, and not on the rear. This led me to believe that the seal was not letting the rear main cap fully settle on the block, giving improper seal crush, causing the seal to be very tight in some areas and a small gap in others. After chatting with a few people at a car show, one guy with a 400 Pontiac engine said that setting the crush of the rear main seal was normal procedure. He was instructed by instructions in the seal package to trim the seal accordingly allowing .020" of seal showing on each surface, the block and the rear main cap. One of my friends chatted with a guy in Vegas that builds nothing but race engines stated that he has never had any luck just putting today's new seals in without trimming some off to get the proper seal crush. He stated that he goes .010"-.015" on the block and cap, leaving around .020" to .030" seal crush. The directions he gave us was to install the seal flush on one surface and set to what you need on the other surface by carefully filing some off the end of the seal. Repeat the same procedure on the rear cap, but file off the surface on the same side so both filed surfaces will be mating each other. Use a small dab of sealer on the filed seal end and on the rear portion of the block, set and torque to desired setting.
I did this procedure yesterday and found that inserting a new Fel-Pro seal flush in the block on one side and measured the other side, I had almost .060" on just that half of the seal. On the cap, it measured around .035", leaving a total of around .095" total crush, being WAY TOO MUCH, thus not allowing the rear main cap to set flat, causing an improper wear on the bearing and an obround seal that would not hold oil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With any luck, I will fire this engine today and hopefully be back tonight with a very excited report for everyone. Keep your fingers crossed!!!!!!

[barabar]

Jetsbaby,
You asked me , what was the total crush I set my seal at, not the person on 460ford.com. He based his crush on a 400 Pontiac seal not a 385 series viton seal. There are to many varibles here to correlate this to my situation and use his exact numbers. When I said pay attention to detail, I meant your detail. Whatever I read on any website or manual I DONOT interpret it as cast in stone. I digest it as a starting point or an different avenue to approch the problem. Remember this is third hand info. I also talk to Ford Racing and Flatlander both have problems with the 2 piece seal. Did I mentioned I put a dial guage on the crank to make sure it wasn't out of round, did I mentioned I machined the seal at 87 degrees to the 200 grit wheel instead of 90 also(this was so the lip mated properly) the ring that the rubber is vulcanized to is tempered. If you are adjusting the radius of the seal lip you have to bend it pass center line and then let it relax to accommnodate the radius of the crank. I base my crush on 2 things, the way a one piece seal lip rides on a shaft and the distance I had on the cap to the block with the seal bottomed in the groove and from my experience .012 is where I want to be.
My opinion----If you don't machine the seal accordingly(or to much crush) it will have a tendency to heart shape due to the spring steel in the ring.
I have no leaks to include checking between the flywheel and block.
I will be heading to the DYNO in a couple of weeks. My best guess is 700 to 750 hp @ 6500? And 700 ft lbs torque @ 4500 rpm? You can hold my feet to the fire on this. I will post it.