Re-Torquing SCJ Aluminum Heads on the Ford Racing Crate engines

[kitcarbp]

Its time to re-torque my 460 SCJ heads on my Ford Racing Crate engine after break-in and want to get feedback from those who have already been there done that. The set-up from Ford Racing uses ARP head studs and has adjustable rockers. SInce I have to remove the rockers to get to the head stud nuts, what tools work best for these valve lash adjustments after the head nut retorque is finished? I see LSM Tools sells a very nice big $$ valve lash torque wrench to make it fast and accurate. Other types have wrenches without the torque wrench built in.

I haven't adjusted valves since high school and need your input.

Is it best to completely lossen each ARP head nut one at a time (in proper the sequence) and re-torque to 135 ft-lbs (Ford Racing Spec).

Who has done this using Ford Racing motors with the Alum. SCJ heads ?

Thanks

[blykins]

I don't back them off and retorque. I just go over each one in sequence at the torque spec and check them.

As for running the valves, you don't need any special tools. A closed end wrench and an allen wrench or T-handle works just fine.

Set the intake valve when the exhaust valve on that cylinder is starting to open.

Set the exhaust valve when the intake valve on that cylinder is starting to close.

Your cam will have a hot lash spec. Subtract about .006" from that to set them cold, then go over them again as a double check when the engine is hot.

[kitcarbp]

Blykins, Thanks , that makes sense, mine is a hydraulic flat tappet cam. I understand that you adjust the rocker to get 0 (zero lash), and then additonal 1/2 turn on hex (allen) rocker screw ( I presume this 1/2 turn (180 deg.) pre-loads the lifter??) and then you tighten the rocker lock nut to (20-25 ft-lbs). Is this right ?
Thanks

[blykins]

Ah, when you said lash, a solid cam popped into my head....

Same rules on what order you set them.

With a hydraulic cam, then just take up all the slack in the pushrod (doesn't necessarily mean that it will have drag on it or will barely turn, it just means that there is zero lash), then give her about a half turn and lock it down.

I don't use a torque wrench on the rockers, just adjust the preload, then put the smack down on the set screw with a T-handle.

If you wanted to get technical, your lifter manufacturer will have a "preload spec"...say .015-.020". If you measure each thread on your rocker stud, you will see how much a half turn, 3/4 turn, or full turn will preload the lifters. Then you can adjust accordingly.

However, unless it's a short travel lifter or I'm trying to set it at the very top of the travel, then I go about 1/2 turn past zero lash.

[kitcarbp]

Ok that helps me.

The adjustment method I see referenced by other builders is the one you mentioned (Adjust Intake when exhast begins to OPEN, Adjust Exhaust when intake is Almost closed, folks use EOIC a reminder).


But why not use the sequence of the firing order and adjust each cylinder when its firing @ TDC by starting at :

# 1, (adjust both I/E) then turn crank 90 deg,
#5, (adjust both I/E) then turn crank 90 deg
#4 etc. etc.

What are pros and cons ?

Does it depend on how much the cam is advanced in a given engine since 90 deg at crank may not put you exactly on cam lobe's base circle of a given cylinder ?

Does it comes down to being able to judge when the lifter is on the base circle of the cam ???
Thanks again

[blykins]

It comes down to knowing exactly when the lifter is on the base circle.

With larger cams, even at TDC, one lobe could be starting to swing up.

When the exhaust valve is starting to open, you know without a doubt that the intake lifter is on the heel of the lobe because you can't have the intake valve open when you start the exhaust stroke. On the same token, when the intake valve is starting to close, then you know the exhaust valve is shut because you're on the compression stroke.

I use the EOIC method on every engine, no matter what. When you get proficient at it, then you can run more than one valve at a time, because the intake valve on one cylinder may be starting to close, while the exhaust valve on another cylinder may be just starting to open...so you can snag them both in short order.

[kitcarbp]

OK thanks for helping me clear out the years of cobwebs since I last did this. The chart I found on ford460.com for adjusting using the EOIC method is shown here? Is this what you meant ?

So I get it. the chart is showing which valve lifter is sitting exactly on the base circle of the cam lobe,and thus the sequence every 90 deg of crank rotation is shown.

CORRECTION: THIS CHART IS NOT THE EOIC method.

[blykins]

No, not what I meant. That's just a chart of the TDC method, which isn't what you should use. That's why I went through the explanation of the EOIC method. If you use the TDC method (chart), then you can't ensure that a lifter is sitting on the base circle.

What I was referring to up above (and I may not have explained it correctly) was this: as an example, say you're on #1 cylinder and you see that the #1 exhaust is starting to open. At that point you can adjust the #1 intake valve. At the very same instance without turning the engine over or touching anything else, you see that (just as an example) #4 intake valve is starting to close. Then you can just hop over and set #4 exhaust valve. That's what I was referring to when I said that you can get proficient and just hop around and get them all in short order.

However, just for simplicity sake, forget that I said all of that.....

Start with #1 cylinder, rotate the engine CW until the exhaust valve starts to open. Set the intake valve. Then continue rotating the engine CW until the intake valve starts to close. Set the exhaust valve. Move on to #2 cylinder and repeat the process.

[ItBites]

No that is not the EOIC. That 90 degree rotate method MAY work with factory cams, but...


This is EIOC and is the only method that will never fail you, irrespective of camshaft lift, firing order, etc:

Set the intake valve when the exhaust valve on that cylinder is starting to open. EO = Exhaust is just Opening

Set the exhaust valve when the intake valve on that cylinder is starting to close. IC = Intake is just Closing.

Blykins already told you what method to use and now I have repeated it. Do not use another method, including the 90 degree method you have mentioned twice.

[kitcarbp]

Thanks, I'll keep to the EOIC method. I found this description from PACEPERFORMANCE.com:

3. Using a long handled ratchet or breaker bar attached to the crank bolt, turn the engine over in the clockwise direction.

A. Starting with #1 cylinder, turn the engine over until the exhaust pushrod just begins to move up.

B. At this point, stop and adjust the intake valve on the same cylinder.

1) Tighten the rocker until you can roll the pushrod between your thumb and forefinger with the slightest bit of resistance.

2) At this point tighten between an additional quarter to half of a turn.

C. You have now adjusted the #1 intake valve. You will now want to turn the engine over while watching the same intake pushrod that you just set, it will go full open and then begin to close. When it is almost closed, stop and adjust the exhaust rocker arm on that particular cylinder. By following this procedure, you are assured that both of the lifters are at the base circle of the cam and that there is no additional pre-load applied to them from cam lift at this point.

D. You are now able to repeat this procedure on the remaining cylinders.

4) Re-install your valve covers and your valve adjustment procedure is finished

[blykins]

I disagree with that method, specifically step #1.

I never roll the pushrod looking for resistance as that can be misleading.

I move the pushrod axially, looking for lash. If you have a tuned finger, you can feel lash and more importantly (if the lifter isn't filled with oil), you can fill the plunger move.

You could theoretically be pushing the plunger of an empty lifter (no oil) down and still be able to twist the pushrod.

Keeping it simple, hydraulic lifters are set with preload, which means zero lash plus an amount of turn.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

I'd like some feedback,good or bad on the folowing procedure:
this is for a hydraulic flat tappet cam in a 302/351-W engine.....saw a guy do this and I've done it with seemily good results....
took an old factory valve cover and cut a slot out of the top the length of the top first about 2 inches wide.
then started the engine, let if come up to full operating temp., then shut it off and removed one valve cover and installed "modified" valve cover.
then restarted the engine (idling) and one by one, loosen the rocker arm nut slowly till you hear the valve start "ticking", then tighten rocker nut itll the "ticking" stops and then 1/2 turn more.........go to the next valve,repeat till all done.........

the only purpose of the slotted valve cover is mainly just to keep hot oil from dripping and splashing all over everything........
What you guys say/think about this method for a small block Ford, hydraulic flat tappet cammed engine??????
David

[blykins]

David, my dad used to do it that way.

I don't really see anything wrong with it other than the fact that it's not too precise. Some hydraulic lifter manufacturers require a specific amount of preload. There are some Comp lifters that are low travel and you set them at the top of the travel or with just a little bit of preload past that. I suppose it would be hard to set them that way with the engine running.

However, a lot of guys set the preload on hydraulic lifters the way that you mentioned and it seems to work.

That's one of the things about engine building. A lot of engine builders are very egotistical in the fact that they think their way is the only way. I'm more of the persuasion that there are several ways to get to the same destination and as long as you can get there reliably, then that's all that's asked of you.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

I don't consider myself an engine builder,per se, I only build my own engines and have built (standard overhaul on a daily driver) a very,very few for family members......One thing I do is always listen to others regardless who much or how little expirence they have, then go form there.......I'm always open to someone else's thoughts and expirence......

David

[blykins]

I agree. You never know when someone else may have a better way of doing things.

[kitcarbp]

All good points to learn from here. I get the axial test is best compared to spinning the push rod. One last question. I plan to do mine cold and not a running engine. However since my engine has not been run in 4 months , isnt it best if I start it up to run it long enough to get the lifters pumped up fully and then let the engine cool back down before retorquing the heads and setting the lash ? I'm concerned that a lifter with no oil in it since it has not run in 4 months may be harder to "feel" when the plunger is compressing while setting the lash. I dont have a feel for how long it takes my lifters to bleed down so thats why I ask. Common sense tells me the oil has drained from the lifter after sitting so long. What are your thoughts ?

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by kitcarbp

All good points to learn from here. I get the axial test is best compared to spinning the push rod. One last question. I plan to do mine cold and not a running engine. However since my engine has not been run in 4 months , isnt it best if I start it up to run it long enough to get the lifters pumped up fully and then let the engine cool back down before retorquing the heads and setting the lash ? I'm concerned that a lifter with no oil in it since it has not run in 4 months may be harder to "feel" when the plunger is compressing while setting the lash. I dont have a feel for how long it takes my lifters to bleed down so thats why I ask. Common sense tells me the oil has drained from the lifter after sitting so long. What are your thoughts ?

re-torquing the heads needs to be done on a cold engine, I always like to get an engine up to operating temp before checking/re-setting valve lash.....that way lifters are full of hot oil and things have heated up enough to "grow" to whatever they will, after all, this is how your engine will be operated.....
I'd do the valves first, then when finished just put the valve covers on the heads,no need to bolt them back down, just on to keep debris out, let it sit overnight and re-torue heads in the morning on a cold engine, that way, you'll only have to take the valve covers off once.....

David

[vector1]

loosen each head stud in sequence then retorque to full value in one movement. do each succeeding stud in same fashion. that's the only way you are going to get full torque value. you might even relube with whatever you choose.

[kitcarbp]

Regarding the head stud re-torque. I just spoke to the ARP tech line since my 460 uses the ARP head studs with 12 point nuts. They confirmed that the correct way (starting in middle of head and following in proper sequence) is to back-off each nut (one at a time) by 1/4 to 1/2 turn and then bring it up to max torque (Ford Racing quotes 135 ft-lbs) ARP instructions quote 140 ft-lbs. The reason to back the nut off is to ensure less friction on the re-tighten, and ensure the pre-load on the stud is correct when torqued to @ 135-140 ft-lbs.

Hope this helps anyone else who has to retorque their Ford Racing 460's with Jon Kaase Heads.

UPDATE: After trading emails with Jon Kaase, he confirmed there is no reason to back off the head stud nuts when retorquing the heads. Just run them up to 130 ft-lbs (Ford Racing claimed 135 ft-lbs) close enough for me. I tried one nut for grins in the middle lower row and found one that was about 1/8th of a turn away from 135ft-lbs confirming ive got a check all of 'em. Hope this helps others.

[blykins]

Another reason they tell you to back off 1/4 turn is so that you can get a good solid "click" on your torque wrench.