460 usability?

[sspano01]

another point, a 460 will fit, but its tight. i lucked out in a few spots on mine, it would be great if you have the body and then fit the engine and the body together.
Also, try to mount the 460 as low as possible in the frame. That will help on clearance and center of gravity.

[YerDugliness]

I've been following this thread since the first post b/c I love the 335/385 series canted valve Ford engines. I've built quite a few 335's, never a 385....just curious, how heavy are they? My 427 body-style has an all iron 302 in it and it handles VERY well, if I could get close to that by going all alloy in a 385 I might consider it.

Torque is FUN!!!! These things are real torque monsters, and when you're talking about torque there's no replacement for displacement, so the big CID #'s are exciting. I just want to be able to turn a corner on a dirt road without it sliding off the road....gotta get some weight off the front end!

Anyone running lightweight in a 429/460 stroker?

Cheers!

Dugly 8)

[sspano01]

suspension and tires are definately super key to running with a 460, even with an aluminum top end. i have been tweaking mine all summer.

although...my engine is out now due to a spun rod bearing!! will be running again here in a week or two.

but that does get me thinking about building an all aluminum 521, you know, as a backup

[Quintum]

Ok here is a question. Can the IRS system that is sold by FFR handle the 700/700 hp/tq output of the engine?
FFR IRS System

I suppose I should be asking FFR guys, but hey why not ask here as well.

Regards,
Dave

[D-CEL]

“Anyone running lightweight in a 429/460 stroker?”
Maybe.....Oh hell yea! I love this topic! LOL
I have two!
This is my current 466

Ford Motorsports A96 block, ported A429 heads, 10.8-1, .605 lift solid cam, ported Torker II, and a BG 850 Race demon RR. It made 607hp, 714ftlbs @ the crank
Low and behold I found another on Ebay, but this one is the Pro-stock version with small bock ford main journals and dry-sump oiling. The block weighs 160lbs un-machined. It will be about 110lbs when the bores are finished to 4.625. That is almost 100 lbs lighter than a machined production 2 bolt block.

[sspano01]

D-CEL, do they still make the A96 block? That looks super nice!

My engine is out for rebuilt right now and I will be putting it back in within a week or so. I am planning to goto Dry Sump so I can get more stable oil on road tracks.

What/where did you get your 460 dry sump system? What is a kit? Did you put it together from pieces? Mostly, what pump, bracket, and drive belt/system are you using?

Thanks!!

[D-CEL]

Spanno01,

Ford Motorsports stopped carrying the M6010-A96 years ago, so you cannot get a new, Ford branded Alum BB from the catalogue. If that is important to you, it will have to be hunted down.
However the tooling now belongs to Carrol Carter @ C&C motorsports (C and C MotorSports The updated “Roberts Design block” is available in many different configuration (Deck heights, cranks dia, oiling systems etc)
FYI, a standard 10.320, wet sump, RD block books at about $6000. I do see complete motors come up from time to time on Racingjunk.com Race, performance & street cars, engines, engine parts, trailers for sale this is on there now.
Aluminum 632, C460, Callies Crank, JE pistons, GRP rods, Bullet Cam, Jesel belt drive, ATI balancer, Crowler lifters, Roush ported C460 heads, titanium ex valves, Jesel rockers, PAC valve springs, W&W Sheet metal dual intake, Pro-System Carburetors. 2 stages of nitrous, wet sump oil pan, Peterson adjustable oil pump. Engine has approximately 40 1/8 mile and 15 ¼ mile passes.

****$16,500 ENGINE ONLY *****

Clearly not a street motor, but it would be a great pile of parts to start with. Sell off the stuff you don’t want to finance a more street friendly build. Prob. more than $30k in parts

Dry sump:
If you are going road racing with a BBF, it is really a good choice. Unfortunately, you may have difficulty finding a “kit”. I have been piecing mine together (not done yet). I have the pump, tank, fittings, lines. I still need the bracket, pulleys and pan. I have my mind set on a two piece pan with oil squirters, something nobody builds…yet.
This is my pump. It is a 5 stage Ed Pink with a de-air-iator (Oil-Air separator)

And my tank is a Moroso with heaters (blue) and a Thermo-couple (Orange)


I buy a lot of ex-Nascar/Indy parts and re-purpose them! Lol

Jason

[Mdman352]

Originally Posted by Quintum

Hello Everyone.

I am doing a bit of research before I start my kit (it'll be a year or two down the road). The current kit I am looking at is an FFR IV, and I have a few questions regarding using a 460 block.

Currently I am looking at doing a 460cc (maybe stroked out to say a 482) engine. Nothing to wild, hydraulic cam, run on 91 octane (Phoenix, AZ). While trying to get as close to 600 hp if possible (If the engine were to be over 600 hp, I'm sure I could find someone to twist my arm).

What I'm wondering is what will this engine run like? Daily driver possible? From what I understand this wont be a problem.

Gas mileage? Reason for asking is that I will be wanting to do some driving around the state and maybe even cross country. So if I go to L.A. from phx az, for the weekend will I need to hit up the gas station 20 times or maybe 6 times?

Heat issues? Living in phx az, it can get pretty hot here. Will there be issues with driving the car around night time when its still 110 out? or even better yet, during the day time sitting at lights?

The fit? 460 block is pretty big. I was wondering how the fit is for a FFR kit? Will I need to take the engine out to change the spark plugs? Or take off an engine mount and tilt the engine so I can remove the starter (yea don't laugh, had to do that once...)?

Thanks for all your input.

Warm Regards,
Dave

I have in my garage a FFR with a 545 cubic inch BIG motor. The three plugs on the drivers side will require pulling the engine or making an access panel. To say it is tight would be an understatement. Think Windsor based motor.......they make great power and you can access the motor to work on it.

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by Mdman352

Think Windsor based motor.......they make great power and you can access the motor to work on it.

If I have to go with a Windsor based motor, I would use an alloy 351 block, bored and stroked to 427CID, with AFD Cleveland heads....essentially a 427 Clevor! It is the motor of my dreams right now, but the torque possibilities with the 385 series excites me b/c of the huge displacement numbers present...no need for a mondo build, you can build "mild" and still melt the tires...or, if you can go light enough and hook up well enough, perhaps hold the front wheels off the ground for 1/8 mile?

Really like the alloy 385 block, but it sounds like mega-$$$$$

Cheers!

Dugly

[sspano01]

you have to go large displacement. take my cobra for instance, sure there are ones that shine better, or have more chrome, or the brake lines look a little nicer under the hood - but not too many have a bigger engine (well i guess for mdman352!)

D-Cel, i have most of the dry sump parts figured out - where are you planing to mount the tank?

[D-CEL]

I always tought i would put it in the trunk and hard line it up to the engine compartment, then a a couple of feet of flex to the pump.
But I have been looking at the passenger footbox lately. It might fall victim to my sawzall! LOL

[sspano01]

D-Cel, thats what I am thinking too, passenger footbox

[Silversmith]

I'm glad to see so many gearheads excited about the 385 series engines as I. While I truly love my original FE/sideoiler & I still consider it the ultimate for a AC Cobra. Hearing/feeling the FE rev/push past 7000 rpm through the gears. is...IS better than!! Well you know what they say? (ok, a old girlfriend said it, after a 7k ride in csx 3116) "Sex is only temporary, for ever lasting pleasure... Drive a Cobra!" When/if I loose this FE, I will most likely go 385. A 385 w/alum. top end is lighter than my present FE. If you add a alum. 385 block, you will be in the windsor iron range! If/when I consider the change, my 1st stop will be @ the #one 385 engine builder in the (IMHO) US. John Kaase Racing engines.com He designed/manifactures the P-51 heads & manifactures 385 alum. blocks. His web site sells complete engine packages. I saw a P-51 engine (not sure about alum. block or not) 800+ HP for $15K! Any way I invite all interested in the 385 series engine to take a look @ John's site. Heck, I'm thinking about getting a FFR MKIV & dropping a 385 in it just to create the ultimate Pants Wetter!! Exact replica be dammed!! PS If your are worried about fuel mileage, you don't belong in one of these

[D-CEL]

Engine weight:

Their is a sticky post on dedicated to engine weight
(Race Engine Weights - Page 2)
Typically they run from about 600-650 lbs (Iron block, alum head and a single carb.)
There is one published Alum block engine at 556 lbs. It is a 598 with 18 bolt “A” heads, big crank, vac pump etc.
With that, a 530lb (maybe less) 550ci BBF is very possible. If it made 850-900 hp,
that’s my version of the Ultimate Cobra motor.


Jason

[mdross1]

This dry sump stuff sure does make the mouth water,looked into that a little at first.Knowing our car was going to need cabin heat the real estate is would not allow both heater box and sump tank.
My first engine choice was going to be the SOHC 427" Wow! is all I can say.In the end the 460 turned out to be the best choice for ease of building big power and torque, lifting the hood and not seeing any ground.
Except for #7 plug (made a little 3" square door in firewall for easy access) motor is very easy to work on.Have a spare 460 sitting in the shop just in case.

[sspano01]

-----

[sspano01]

Yes - A 385 series big block is totally useable
I had to remove mine a few weeks ago after bearing spin doing time trials at NJMP Lightning. Had it up to 137mph, but oil control pressure and temperature did it in.

Rebuilt, new crankshaft, king bearings, 3/4 race main bearings, aviaid cobra mid-sump pan and new oil pump.

Big Engine - Little Car

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sspano01/8212630304/

Like a glove! Took 2 hours to install and only 10 minutes of swearing

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sspano01/8212630582/

[Rick Parker]

What is it about the 429/460 based engine that causes oiling issues???

[sspano01]

i've been researching possible oil issues with the 385 after my rod bearing failure. I did not turn up any conclusive/smoking-gun issue.

I think the root of my issue was that i burned out my oil. I had about 10 track days on it and was running a time-trial race and keeping the engine up at high rpms (about 5000-5500) for a period of time. The oil temperature was climbing near 270, it was only conventional oil, and i did not have an oil cooler.

so, in 2013, i'll have the oil cooler running, and change my oil after every 2-4 track days at the most. i think that will fix my issues. and the aviaid oil pan looks much better than the canton pan and its design should provide some better oil control over the canton.

i'll also have another car to hammer on ready by the summer so I wont be beating up my cobra so much.

[Tom Wells]

sspano01,

You might get some insight here into oil-related failures for the 460.

Experience with other Ford engines may or may not be relevant...

Accusump E.C.P valve or Manual?

That said, I've watched mod motors, FEs, small blocks and other 385 series engines fail at places like Sebring where there are long sweeping turns keeping oil pressure at or near zero for many seconds. Accusump keeps mine going there.

You may think that changing pans (without adding an Accusump or dry sump) will prevent this kind of failure - if so, I sincerely hope you are correct. My experience says there's still a very significant risk.

Tom