460 usability?

[Tom Wells]

Gents,

If you're really serious about Ford HP, this is likely the premier place to look: Jon Kaase Racing Engines - Jon Kaase Custom Built Boss Nine Engines.

If that doesn't do it, try this: Jon Kaase Racing Engines - 820 Ford HEMI

After that, I guess you gotta see John Force's engine builder

Tom

[Ben Kellom]

Best thing I did to my 429 was Electric drive on water pump. Really got the temp under control in city traffic.
My 429 was in a Galaxy for many years now being repurposed for a Cobra.

[mdross1]

Originally Posted by Ben Kellom

Best thing I did to my 429 was Electric drive on water pump. Really got the temp under control in city traffic.
My 429 was in a Galaxy for many years now being repurposed for a Cobra.

What is the difference does the electric pump move the water faster or slower.
Our 460 with custom made copper radiator works great with belt driven pump.During very hot weather once the fan starts it pretty much runs all the time.

[Macka62]

I also have the 460 in my FFR. It runs Edelbrock heads and intake with a trans cooler on the C6 and extra thermo fan. There is no problem getting to the plugs or accessing any other of its bits in the engine bay.

It produces plenty of horsepower and runs great for street use. It has no oil problems and has a definite wow factor.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

IMO, the first area should be pan volume. The more oil you have in the pan, the longer the pump can run before it sucks air. I like a full length, “T” sump pan with a rear pickup and make sure your oil level is full! Use all the capacity you have.

Jason:

Which pan are you using on your engine? Is that a 'marine' pan - with a full sump?

I have a front sump, OEM style pan on my 460, and I'm looking for more capacity and better baffling, without creating ground clearance issues. A full sump pan seems the best option, and I've found a couple that seem like they may work.

Thanks in advance.

[D-CEL]

Cycleguy55,
I run the Aviaid "Cobra style" 460 pan with a windage tray. I also have the large Canton accu-sump.
My someday motor will be dry-sumped.

Jason

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

Cycleguy55,
I run the Aviaid "Cobra style" 460 pan with a windage tray. I also have the large Canton accu-sump.
My someday motor will be dry-sumped.

Jason:

Thanks for your response. BTW, it looks like you're quoted in the linked Web page (Oil Pan Research | Hey Little Cobra…).

Based upon what I see there, the Aviaid Cobra 460 oil pan (p/n 155-55435) has a capacity of 9 quarts in the sump, plus filter and cooler. I couldn't find capacity information on Aviaid's Web site or in their catalogue, but it seems reasonable, based upon what I've seen elsewhere. For example:

• Canton Marine pan (p/n 18-760) has a full 7.5" deep sump w/o kickouts, and it's listed as 7 quarts
• Milodon Marine Pan (p/n 31365) has a pan capacity of 10 quarts, plus plus filter w/o kickouts, but it's 8.85" deep at the front and 7” deep at the rear

Questions:

1. Ignoring the oil in the Accusump, has it been your experience that 9 quarts is the pan capacity?
2. Other than going dry sump, would you go with the same pan if you had to do it all over again?

Brian

[D-CEL]

Brian,
Quoted? LOL, who knew?

I cant say exactly how much just the pan holds, but I would guess its 10+ with my dip stick marking. A full load at a change is 15qts.

Yes I would use and recommend that pan again.

Also important is that you address the oil return from the heads.

Jason

[keezling]

One quick comment about mpg. If you go on group drives that last all day range becomes an issue. The efi small block boys can go nearly twice as far as I can, and they plan routes based on their cars range...

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

Brian,
Quoted? LOL, who knew?

I cant say exactly how much just the pan holds, but I would guess its 10+ with my dip stick marking. A full load at a change is 15qts.

Yes I would use and recommend that pan again.

Also important is that you address the oil return from the heads.

Jason

I've only had the car since mid-July, and most of the next 3 months was getting safety approval. I've had the valve covers off once, but failed to check the oil returns to see if that work was done when they milled the rocker stands and installed positive lock seals.

I'll need to add that to my 'to do' list, along with all the other stuff that needs doing, modifying, replacing, upgrading, etc.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by keezling

One quick comment about mpg. If you go on group drives that last all day range becomes an issue. The efi small block boys can go nearly twice as far as I can, and they plan routes based on their cars range...

Part of the reason I'm having a new 92 liter (24 U.S. gallons) tank built to replace my 55 liter (14 U.S. gallons) tank.

Other reasons to replace it include: a) a nearly horizontal Mustang filler neck that wasn't properly vented; b) an elbow made from an exhaust elbow and, in the process, significantly reduced in cross section; c) the tank was a b***h to fill - probably due to the filler neck and elbow; and d) the vertical, rectangular lump was pretty much in the middle of the trunk. FWIW, I'm also convinced the flex connections were made with radiator hose, not proper fuel hose. I was told otherwise, but there weren't any legible markings and the trunk always had a persistent fuel smell.

[Bentheroofer]

Aloha, I'm fighting an overheating problem right now with my 460BB Hunter Cobra. I'm baffled. I replaced the fan with twins, put in a 160degree thermostat. Everything else seems fine. Ii am curious, what do you mean by a fuel delivery problem. Thanks, in advance. Ben

[Bentheroofer]

Sorry, new to board, I was replying to Bran 3B

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Bentheroofer

Aloha, I'm fighting an overheating problem right now with my 460BB Hunter Cobra. I'm baffled. I replaced the fan with twins, put in a 160 degree thermostat. Everything else seems fine. Ii am curious, what do you mean by a fuel delivery problem. Thanks, in advance. Ben

Check out the tech tips on pages 21-23 of this: https://stewartcomponents.com/wp/wp-...rt_catalog.pdf

BTW, an engine that's running too cold will suffer increased engine wear, deposits and emissions. It's not news that oil is also thicker when it's cool, so it needs to warm up to provide proper lubrication. Oil also needs to get hot enough to vapourize any moisture it collects. Here's a good article, including a chart of engine wear vs. temperature, that may have people yanking their 160 deg. thermostats in favour of 180 deg. ones: HOTRODSRJ’s COOLING TIPS Operating temperature vs power and longevity!

From the above article: "Years of research show use of 160 degree thermostats is way too low to be considered for performance or engine longevity. As the chart above illustrates, engine wear increased by DOUBLE at 160, than at 185 degrees."

If you're running EFI, you absolutely need to run the appropriate thermostat, or the temperature sensor(s) will read a cool engine and adjust the fuel/air mixture to compensate. It may even adjust timing - but I don't know.

Even if you're running a carburetor, the engine will take longer to get to proper operating temperature with a 160°F thermostat - if it gets there at all. Before I put the thermostat in mine (180°F high flow thermostat) I found the engine was slow to warm up. Worse, when the temperatures dipped the coolant temperature was peaking around 160-165°F on the highway.

Last year I installed an oil temperature gauge, and I can tell you the rise in oil temperature lags the coolant temperature by quite a bit. My coolant temperature is up to 180-190°F in a few minutes of driving, but it probably takes 15 minutes of driving before the oil temperature gets to 200°F, and 30 minutes in warm temperatures (e.g. 25°C / 77°F) before it gets to 220°F. It's a safe bet it would rarely hit 200°F with a 160°F thermostat.

I would HIGHLY recommend a high flow 180°F thermostat, if not higher.

[bran3b]

Ben,

I discovered that the fuel supply line between the tank and the engine had been dented so that it was flowing 50% or less. This caused the engine to idle fine but any time that the RPMs went much above an idle, the carb leaned out and caused the engine to run poorly and overheat. Once I replaced the pump and all of the fuel lines, the car started running better and much cooler.

Last week I ordered an EFI setup so I get to refresh the fuel pump and hardlines again.

[Ace23]

I keep thinking about how I'm going to get another 100hp and 100tq out of my 427 windsor and I always end up thinking just get a 385 and get it over with. I've never driven in a big block cobra but I'm almost positive I would like it better over the 427. I'm sure it is very easy to get carried away but I think 700hp and 700tq would be a great way to start. With 20% drivetrain loss in a SPF that puts you at 550hp and tq.

[mdross1]

Originally Posted by Bentheroofer

Aloha, I'm fighting an overheating problem right now with my 460BB Hunter Cobra. I'm baffled. I replaced the fan with twins, put in a 160degree thermostat. Everything else seems fine. Ii am curious, what do you mean by a fuel delivery problem. Thanks, in advance. Ben

The 180 degree thermostat is a must make sure all the air that flows through the nose has to flow through the radiator. Look at a Cobra that has the engine oil cooler with that baffling all air has to go through the rad.
Getting all the air purged out is also a must, I added a brass purge valve to the thermostat neck. My car runs approx. 190 degrees all the time in all situations. Stop and go traffic it will sneak up slightly. Finally are you certain your radiator has the capacity to cool the 460?