460 to 514 or bigger

[mdross1]

With all the SO/CO FE talk on the forum it got me thinking about the 385 again especially since I have a spare 460.Have any of you gone from a 460 to a 514 or bigger? Can you say how much more of a kick seat of the pants performance was?
Before I go flat tappet to roller in the 460 want to talk about the 500+ inch conversion.

[Tom Wells]

mdross1,

My E-M with the 521 just passed 30K street and track miles. The grin factor has been, and still is, enormous. Even with the C-6 auto and a 2.88 posi Jag rear, it is necessary to "roll on" the throttle at any speed. If you stomp it you can lose it in an instant, even with the wear rating 200 street tires. If you are on the track with Kumhos or similar slicks, you still need to be careful...

The engine has the newest Holley multiport EFI and a Crane hydraulic roller. I still think it's the most HP and torque available for the dollar, and if you pay attention to the oil system updates here (particularly the distributor gear mod): http://www.highflowdynamics.net you should have a very reliable engine as well.

I like it so much I built a 557 for my 1981 Zephyr wagon

That's my story...

Tom

PS: It took two D9 blocks to get a successful 4.440" (0.080 over) for the 557

[blykins]

It depends on what kind of personality you want the engine to have. Do you want to have a tremendous amount of torque, or do you want a higher revving engine? A stock stroke 460 can make almost 700hp at around 6600-6800 with a good set of heads and a roller cam.

[mdross1]

Originally Posted by blykins

It depends on what kind of personality you want the engine to have. Do you want to have a tremendous amount of torque, or do you want a higher revving engine? A stock stroke 460 can make almost 700hp at around 6600-6800 with a good set of heads and a roller cam.

Been seriously looking into this route Kaase P-51 heads and a decent solid roller.One of his .030 over 460's was making serious stump pulling torque and huge hp numbers.The motor in the car now is very low mileage under 5K.

Then there is the strokers using my current Ford Motorsport aluminum heads should also get me the same numbers and be able to use my Tubular Auto exhaust headers.
Still just thinking.

[blykins]

Depending on how high you go on displacement, the heads may not support it enough to make the real big horsepower...

[Jerry Clayton]

Kinda from a different perspective---but------I've had pretty much all varieties of these engines over the years from a 332fe in 1958 ford upto the most current Nascar numbers as the years evolved with the FEs and then several versions of the 429-460s since 1970------

If, you are going to seriously race your vehicle----go for the ligthest,highest revving,best lubricated thing you can get into the vehicle(mainly for two reasons----rpm spread thru the gears for whatever track you are running on((combo of trans and rear)) and less weight for brake performance---Ford racers went with destroked 427s down to 390-396 cubes to get braking performance----

If you are going to street drive your vehicle----anything over 350 cubes will give you impressive performance if you keep it sensable------

Now, if you want a 850 or lower idle, usable lower AND upper tranny gear (5-6 speeds), go for aluminum(lighter) 460------you can still get good reasonable cores, hydraulic lifters(roller or flat) decent manifolds, water and oil flows are good----I removed 360fe from my 1970 F250 to put in 428 cranked 427 and while apart ran across recently totaled 69 lincoln with 460, C6 with ps and ac that I installed instead of the fe---had to do mounts, etc, but the truck was a monster on the top fuel circuit tow trucks---its still out there from what I hear being know as the Devil Truck----was in the movie Funny Car Summer --

We put the Strked 427 in my pardners truck, and it ran very good, but did not perform as good on the road as the 460 however it did use more gas ( $0.299 gal premium) and we always had to carry an extra 5 gal can or two for him--------

There were many Ford type people that saw and or rode in the truck and eventually Ford put the 460 into the trucks for 1973-----------

[xlr8tr]

Hey Jerry, where do you source used aluminum 385 blocks? I had thought they were pretty rare, but I'd love one to start the foundation of replacing my iron block iron heads 460... anyone have a ballpark on weight savings going from all iron to all aluminum?

[mdross1]

Originally had thought about an all aluminum 460,at that time money was an issue.Now have two 460's one built in the car the other a spare.Before I decide to do anything want to do the legwork.
This car will be mostly street driven,raced, looking for big torque an engine with attitude.Want to stay with at least 460 love the roll-on grunt (it impresses people more I believe riding shotgun) Maybe all I need is a roller cam looking for an excuse to pull the Performer RPM for polishing.
Honestly this 460 runs great just want a little more and not lose the streetablity.

[lvhdude]

Originally Posted by Tom Wells

mdross1,


The engine has the newest Holley multiport EFI

Is that the Terminator system? Did it work as advertised, without any special tuneing or dyno time? Are you useing the timing and fan control functions of the computer?

[Tom Wells]

lvhdude,

I have the Holley HP EFI multiport unit. It is much better than the 950 unit that it replaced. No dyno tune - just set up the air/fuel table and let it do its thing. No ignition or fan control.

The new Terminator looks interesting for my 557... (if it'll really support 600hp...)

[D-CEL]

I love this topic! LOL
If you were in the 550ci range (4.500stroke with a 4.400bore) with a set of P51s @ 10.5-1 and a hydraulic roller it would make prodigious…frightening amounts of torque all day, everyday!
You wouldn’t need (or probably want) to spin it very hard to make your passengers pee themselves.
Aluminum 385 Blocks: You can get them from Carrol Carter at C&C motorsports
C and C MotorSports.
The Roberts Design 10.320 deck, wet block is $5775.00
If you are patient, they do turn up on the used market but they are getting harder to find. I got one on Ebay a few years ago. You can also find them on Racing junk and the 460ford forum.
As far as weight. The factory blocks range from 210-235 lbs depending on casting and bore size.
The A-460 block comes in at 302lbs un-machined and about 260lbs @ 4.625
My un-machined A96 (no longer avail. Ford Motorsports Block) weighs 160 lbs. It should come in between 115-120 lbs @ 4.600. That puts a complete engine in the 550lb range. I would love to see a BBF down @ 500lbs. LSM in Michigan has a CNC profiling program that can remove 30- 40lbs from one of these blocks ( if you machine the main caps too.) Add a remote electric water pump, no distributor, magnesium intake…maybe 490ISH….
Jason

[Mohuska]

I am just finishing a new 547 with 4.500" bore, roller cam, Kaase P-51 heads and Quick Fuel Dual Carbs.... Had to install a somewhat taller scoop to get an air cleaner to fit..... Should all be finished within a week....CAN'T WAIT!!

[mdross1]

You guys running the 550+cubes in these cars sure got my attention. Do me a favor keep me informed,would really like to hear how these motors work. Have you given thought to how you might gear the cars?

[Tom Wells]

mdross1,

I have two 385-powered cars - very similar in specifications but not in appearance. My Cobra has a 521 EFI, C6 and a 2.88 Jag diff. With 46% front, 54% rear and 3200 lbs all-up weight it can spin NT05s at 100mph if I whack it. Needless to say I don't. It gets around 10-11mpg if I am conservative. It just crossed 31K street and track miles.

The other car is a 1981 Zephyr (Fairmont badge twin) wagon with a 557, a 950 Holley, C6 and a 2.73 '04 Cobra IRS. Its weight is close to the Cobra. Its performance is similar. It has done about 8K miles on the street (need to put the diff cooler in before tracking it) and can get 14mpg at a steady 65mph.

If I could get a 4-speed automatic with an overdrive the highway mileage would be better no doubt, but it's hard to find one that will survive track use like the C6s, now that I know Carl Rossler knows how to build them for that.

Grin city every time I take one out, which is nearly daily...

Tom

PS: Here's one: and here's the other:

[Tom Wells]

Mohuska,

Which front mountings are you using for the PS & alt? Did you fabricate them or can they be bought? Would an AC compressor fit below the alt on the pass side?

Inquiring minds would like to know,

Tom

[mdross1]

Well Tom, have to say you have me drooling like a St Bernard thinking about your hot rods. Our car puts a smile you can't slap off can only imagine what your machines would feel like.
That wagon makes a great sleeper how do you hide the thump of that 557?
Mike

[Tom Wells]

Mike,

hide the thump

Short answer - use a full exhaust system with tips exiting under the back bumper, the rear part being a 3" 2004 Cobra catback unit lengthened about a foot - it still sort of shakes the car next to you, though...



Tom

[mdross1]

- it still sort of shakes the car next to you, though...


Oh, I'll bet it does. I really miss those days, we had cars around here years ago that would rattle windows just idling by the house. Not like the youth today with mega bass speakers pounding the glass out of their rubbers.

[mdross1]

Here it is a year later and finally in the retirement groove. Got all major projects done got the Cobra in the operating room. Revisiting tearing the top of the 460 apart for polishing and internal upgrades. Decided that it will be a roller cam conversion, one with attitude yet keeping it streetable. Presently running a Lunati flat tappet .235 @.050, .560 lift both valves the engine pulls hard and sounds great.

[blykins]

If you're going to do head work, I'd have it done first. The cam will depend on how well the heads perform and at what lift.