Thermostat for 460 Cobra

[mdross1]

Getting ready to bolt the intake back on engine thought it might be time to revisit the Thermostat now running a 180 the engines runs 190 most all the time. Once the fan kicks in it stays running. Has anyone run a cooler thermostat?
Mike

[Tom Wells]

Mike,

I run the 180 and it seems fine. Running temp is in the 190-210 range. I use a 16lb cap.

What temp the engine needs to run correctly seems to be a 6-beer discussion, so just my opinion that the 190-210 range is fine.

I do put a small hole in the flange of the thermostat to allow air to escape even if it isn't open. 3/32 is probably OK.

If you want the fan(s) to run less you might consider adjusting the on-off temps a bit. Mine come on at around 190 and off about 180.

Tom

[cycleguy55]

I'm running a high flow 180°F thermostat in my 460, and yours sounds pretty consistent with that, though your cooling fan certainly runs longer than mine does. This may be more an issue of your cooling fan and its controller than it is of the thermostat. Where is the sensor for your cooling fan - intake manifold, upper radiator hose or lower (return) radiator hose? If you've got something like this one ( https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...6731/overview/ ) mounted in the outlet it will turn on when the thermostat opens and will continue running until your thermostat closes.

Mine is on the upper radiator hose and it's similar to this one: https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...6769/overview/ - it has a probe that's mounted outside the coolant flow in a metal sleeve through which the coolant flows. It seems to work fine, and the control module I have has a rheostat dial I can turn to adjust when the fans cut in and out (single control). Mine normally runs in the 190°-205°F range, but will climb to 220°-230°F in stop and go traffic on hot days. I have a fan switch on the dash I can use to override the controller, but I'll be adjusting it to cut in at a slightly lower temperature than it currently does.

FWIW, here's an excerpt from an article on low temperature thermostats ( Low Temp Thermostats: What’s the Advantage? | Tuner University ):

The bottom line however is that in a street car, you're increasing wear and getting no benefit. In a race car, it's a band-aid but not one that you should plan to rely on.

If you're having overheating problems, check the cooling system thoroughly and if all is well, upgrade the radiator, fans or even the water pump -- not the thermostat. If your coolant gauge never goes above normal then your cooling system is adequate for your use of the car.

If you're chasing more power, this isn't a place to look. Any power gain would be circumstantial (ie, only under certain conditions), incredibly negligible, and at the risk of accelerated wear on your expensive engine internals (especially in street cars).

[cycleguy55]

There's a good article on cooling system basics at https://www.centuryperformance.com/c...Su13EpdhQHoDE5

[mdross1]

Thanks for the input not having any problems especially after hearing from you guys. I will look into another fan controller Brian my sensor is mounted on the radiator. Are you running a fan shroud?

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by mdross1

Thanks for the input not having any problems especially after hearing from you guys. I will look into another fan controller Brian my sensor is mounted on the radiator. Are you running a fan shroud?

Dual fan setup with what I'd call a semi-shroud - it doesn't fully cover the radiator surface. I suspect the builder used an off-the-shelf setup without regard to closing off the rest of the radiator core. It seems to work well enough - the only time I had any real issues with heating was when the cooling fan relay failed.

[mdross1]

Same here I'm running a single fan 2700cfm no shroud thinking it might be time to look into fabbing one up . My only hesitation is while the car is moving air flows freely through the radiator giving the fan a break somewhat.

Mike

[mdross1]

Originally Posted by Tom Wells

Mike,

I run the 180 and it seems fine. Running temp is in the 190-210 range. I use a 16lb cap.

What temp the engine needs to run correctly seems to be a 6-beer discussion, so just my opinion that the 190-210 range is fine.

I do put a small hole in the flange of the thermostat to allow air to escape even if it isn't open. 3/32 is probably OK.

If you want the fan(s) to run less you might consider adjusting the on-off temps a bit. Mine come on at around 190 and off about 180.

Tom

Tom

While the manifold is off feel the need to try something new. The hole in the thermostat must help burping air out of the system I assume. With yours and Brians info looks like I'm in pretty good shape.

Mike

[Tom Wells]

Mike,

Exactly - the hole in the thermostat flange is to assist burping. If mine has air in the cooling system, it overheats. If it gets burped over 3-5 heat/cool cycles it is fine.

I have a catch can attached to the radiator overflow.

When the engine is hot, the water expands, driving some of the air out through the tube. The air comes out because the overflow is attached nearly at the top of the radiator where the air can accumulate.

As the engine cools, water is sucked back in from the overflow can, so it is vital to keep its water level above the end of the tube.

Tom

[BOBOCobra]

I run a dual fan, fully shrouded inlet on the fish mouth and fans are shrouded. Fans cover about 70% of core. 180 degree t-stat, high flow with air bleed. Fan 1 comes on at 190, fan 2 comes on at 195-200. At ram air I run almost exactly 100 degrees over ambient. Fans rarely run at ram air. in traffic fan 1 runs constant and fan 2 will cycle on and off and it runs between 190-210 depending on ambient. If cool coastal ram air it will run down to about 170 and move between 170 and 180. Tried a 160 t0stat, made little difference, just opened sooner.

[CBattaglia]

Originally Posted by Tom Wells

Mike,

I run the 180 and it seems fine. Running temp is in the 190-210 range. I use a 16lb cap.

What temp the engine needs to run correctly seems to be a 6-beer discussion, so just my opinion that the 190-210 range is fine.

I do put a small hole in the flange of the thermostat to allow air to escape even if it isn't open. 3/32 is probably OK.

If you want the fan(s) to run less you might consider adjusting the on-off temps a bit. Mine come on at around 190 and off about 180.

Tom

Engine oil optimum temp and acceptable temp range??

Beer open... go! I have been doing a lot of reading and I can't get a straight answer.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by CBattaglia

Engine oil optimum temp and acceptable temp range??

Beer open... go! I have been doing a lot of reading and I can't get a straight answer.

Ask, and ye shall receive: What Is The Optimum Engine Oil Temperature? - Hot Rod Network

[Trubble]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

I'm running a high flow 180°F thermostat in my 460, and yours sounds pretty consistent with that, though your cooling fan certainly runs longer than mine does. This may be more an issue of your cooling fan and its controller than it is of the thermostat. Where is the sensor for your cooling fan - intake manifold, upper radiator hose or lower (return) radiator hose? If you've got something like this one ( https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...6731/overview/ ) mounted in the outlet it will turn on when the thermostat opens and will continue running until your thermostat closes.

Mine is on the upper radiator hose and it's similar to this one: https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...6769/overview/ - it has a probe that's mounted outside the coolant flow in a metal sleeve through which the coolant flows. It seems to work fine, and the control module I have has a rheostat dial I can turn to adjust when the fans cut in and out (single control). Mine normally runs in the 190°-205°F range, but will climb to 220°-230°F in stop and go traffic on hot days. I have a fan switch on the dash I can use to override the controller, but I'll be adjusting it to cut in at a slightly lower temperature than it currently does.

FWIW, here's an excerpt from an article on low temperature thermostats ( Low Temp Thermostats: What’s the Advantage? | Tuner University ):

The bottom line however is that in a street car, you're increasing wear and getting no benefit. In a race car, it's a band-aid but not one that you should plan to rely on.

If you're having overheating problems, check the cooling system thoroughly and if all is well, upgrade the radiator, fans or even the water pump -- not the thermostat. If your coolant gauge never goes above normal then your cooling system is adequate for your use of the car.

If you're chasing more power, this isn't a place to look. Any power gain would be circumstantial (ie, only under certain conditions), incredibly negligible, and at the risk of accelerated wear on your expensive engine internals (especially in street cars).

Brian,
Thanks for your informative post. I'm a new guy here with a 460/514 bbf.
Only got about 50 miles of driving before winter hit us. Not sure that I will have any cooling issues (she was a Florida car) but was interested to know what your fan sensor and controller looked like.
The url links don't work, but can you tell me name and/or part number?
PS: I appreciated the tutorials you mentioned. Good stuff!

Bill

[RockBit]

Originally Posted by Tom Wells

Mike,

I have a catch can attached to the radiator overflow.

When the engine is hot, the water expands, driving some of the air out through the tube. The air comes out because the overflow is attached nearly at the top of the radiator where the air can accumulate.

As the engine cools, water is sucked back in from the overflow can, so it is vital to keep its water level above the end of the tube.

Tom

I have a question about this. If the overflow tube is above the radiator cap, I can see how excess coolant will overcome the cap pressure and be vented to the catch can. I cannot see how coolant can be sucked back into the radiator from the catch can, because the (pressure) radiator cap is closed.

What am I missing?

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Trubble

Brian,
Thanks for your informative post. I'm a new guy here with a 460/514 bbf.
Only got about 50 miles of driving before winter hit us. Not sure that I will have any cooling issues (she was a Florida car) but was interested to know what your fan sensor and controller looked like.
The url links don't work, but can you tell me name and/or part number?
PS: I appreciated the tutorials you mentioned. Good stuff!

Bill

Derale Adjustable Fan Controllers 16769



BTW, you can disable VigiLink in your desktop browser - when it hijacks links look for the link that says 'Why am I seeing this?" Click on that link and it will give you an option to disable VigiLink.



FWIW, I understand the need to monetize Web sites, but this kind of link hijacking is insidious and deplorable.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by RockBit

I have a question about this. If the overflow tube is above the radiator cap, I can see how excess coolant will overcome the cap pressure and be vented to the catch can. I cannot see how coolant can be sucked back into the radiator from the catch can, because the (pressure) radiator cap is closed.

What am I missing?

Radiator caps have 2 functions.

1. hold pressure until the design pressure is reached
2. allow return of coolant when the engine cools, the pressure drops and a vacuum is created.

Check the 1:15 minute mark of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhLUwsCdM08

[RockBit]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

Radiator caps have 2 functions.

1. hold pressure until the design pressure is reached
2. allow return of coolant when the engine cools, the pressure drops and a vacuum is created.

Check the 1:15 minute mark of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhLUwsCdM08

Thank you for the aha moment. I did not realize there are two types of radiator caps, vented and non-vented. The vented type has a second valve to allow coolant to be pulled back into the radiator from an overflow tank.

I get it.

[Trubble]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

Derale Adjustable Fan Controllers 16769



BTW, you can disable VigiLink in your desktop browser - when it hijacks links look for the link that says 'Why am I seeing this?" Click on that link and it will give you an option to disable VigiLink.



FWIW, I understand the need to monetize Web sites, but this kind of link hijacking is insidious and deplorable.

Thanks Brian, for the controller link, and the tip on killing vigilink. I confess I was just p/o'd when I got hijacked, and didn't take time to patiently analyze as I should.
I second ur emotion.