Ford 460 Water Pump Changeout

[520SC]

I'll be transferring my Ford 460 aluminum water pump to a new 460 engine block soon. The Felpro engine gasket set I purchased provides a new water pump gasket, but it doesn't provide a new water pump back plate gasket. I suppose I'll be able to use Permatex Ultra Black gasket maker to seal the back plate to the timing cover.

I'm just curious, and I hope someone can answer my question. The picture below shows an OEM Ford 460 engine timing cover. There are no openings from the water pump outlet to the engine internals (except for the water inlet passages, of course). That being the case, why is a water pump back plate even required? It sure looks like the water pump (and its gasket) should bolt right up to engine timing cover without any leaks.

[mdross1]

I have the pump off my engine never gave that a thought but looking at it without the plate the clearance between the impeller and housing might be too much for the pump to work efficiently. That gasket is available at any auto parts store I got mine at Napa #35039

[keezling]

As cost aware as Ford is, it's there for a reason. A couple bucks plate adds up on a production run of possibly millions of examples.

[keezling]

It would also effect the pulley alignment...

[520SC]

Thanks, guys. I intend to install the back plate. I was just wondering why it's there.

mdross1, NAPA part number #35039 is the water pump gasket, so I'm guessing that I can use two identical water pump gaskets for this job, one between the water pump and the back plate, and one between the back plate and the timing cover?

[cycleguy55]

Fel-Pro p/n 35044 is for Pump to Plate
Fel-Pro p/n 35039 is for Plate to Block

They're different gaskets, as you can easily discover. You could probably cut a 35039 to match a 35044 but these things are widely and readily available, so why bother?

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by 520SC

I'll be transferring my Ford 460 aluminum water pump to a new 460 engine block soon. The Felpro engine gasket set I purchased provides a new water pump gasket, but it doesn't provide a new water pump back plate gasket. I suppose I'll be able to use Permatex Ultra Black gasket maker to seal the back plate to the timing cover.

I'm just curious, and I hope someone can answer my question. The picture below shows an OEM Ford 460 engine timing cover. There are no openings from the water pump outlet to the engine internals (except for the water inlet passages, of course). That being the case, why is a water pump back plate even required? It sure looks like the water pump (and its gasket) should bolt right up to engine timing cover without any leaks.

You need it.

If you install the water pump without the plate the impeller will sit in a very large cavity and flow will be minimal.

This plate also directs flow to the heads.

Like the Amex commercial said: "Don't leave home without it!"

[520SC]

Wow! I learn something new everyday. Those two gaskets are very similar.

FPG #35044




FPG #35039

[520SC]

Here's the Felpro gasket set I purchased on eBay. It comes with the FPG #35039.

[*13*]

Yup, replaced mine recently. the plate is there to keep the water moving effectively. W/o it, it is essentially a propellor spinning in open water. If that makes sense....

[520SC]

Still working on the engine swap. New problem:

We bolted the engine load leveler onto the engine today, expecting to lift the engine out of the engine compartment. Problem is, the brand new 2-ton engine hoist i bought at Auto Zone is too short to reach the load leveler from the front of the car, even with the boom set at the 1/2 ton position. I suppose I can do one of three things: 1) attempt to lift the engine out from the side of the car, or 2) rent a bigger (longer) engine hoist, or 3) hire a company to remove the engine using a crane truck (a $160/hour house call, with a four hour minimum). Needless to say, if I go with option 3, then transfer parts from the old engine to the new engine (a one-day job, at least), I'll have to call them back here to install the new engine.

Has anyone ever lifted an engine out from the side of the car?

[40k Later]

The crane service is not an option, for that price you could buy or build a gantry and get a 2 ton overhead hoist from Harbor freight. I would think pulling it out the side is very doable assuming the front wheel is off so the hoist could slide under there. Get some pics if you do it, love to see how it works

[520SC]

Someone sent me these pics. He used to pull Corvette C3 engines from the side. He started with the hoist at 90 degrees to the engine, then rotated the hoist as he pulled the engine forward. Sounds doable.

(In actuality, the second picture was taken after he'd already modified his engine hoist to be used for a straight forward engine pull.)

[mdross1]

Had the same problem so I picked up a steel I beam mounted it to the ceiling bought a trolley then used a chain jack with engine leveler piece of cake after that.

[keezling]

I have pulled/installed my 460 & trans together from front using the standard generic hoist with the body on x times over for conversion from auto to manual trans, engine upgrades etc. Doable yes, advisable well it's what I did for a living my whole working life. It makes you lazy looking for the easiest way to do things. Just make sure boom isn't extended past the tipping point. �� Pulling engine seems excessive for a water pump lol (just kidding)

[520SC]

The reason I can't reach the required spot from the front of the car is that my Cobra is a Street Beasts 8" stretch Cobra, having a 98" wheel base (90" is standard). The cockpit is 4" longer than normal, and the engine compartment is 4" longer than normal. The engine hoist would work on any Cobra with a standard sized engine compartment. On my car, it comes up 4" short.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by 520SC

The reason I can't reach the required spot from the front of the car is that my Cobra is a Street Beasts 8" stretch Cobra, having a 98" wheel base (90" is standard). The cockpit is 4" longer than normal, and the engine compartment is 4" longer than normal. The engine hoist would work on any Cobra with a standard sized engine compartment. On my car, it comes up 4" short.

"Missed it by that much!" -- Maxwell Smart

[FWB]

i pulled the front wheel and pulled engine from the side

[520SC]

Success! Removed the right front tire and pulled the engine over the right front fender. The torque converter hung up on the flex plate for a while so we lost about a half cup of transmission fluid in the process. It eventually popped off and I was able to reseat it completely at the back of the bell housing. Will double check tomorrow.

Thank you all for the help!

[Paul Kane]

Originally Posted by 520SC

I'm just curious, and I hope someone can answer my question. The picture below shows an OEM Ford 460 engine timing cover. There are no openings from the water pump outlet to the engine internals (except for the water inlet passages, of course). That being the case, why is a water pump back plate even required? It sure looks like the water pump (and its gasket) should bolt right up to engine timing cover without any leaks.

The timing cover pictured above is a Ford marine/industrial style front cover and will not need a waterpump backing plate since there are no deep cavities that a backing plate would cover up.


The standard front timing cover pictured on your engine below does have the cavities (11 o'clock to 2 o'clock position) which get covered by the waterpump backing plate--do not leave the backing plate out with the standard cover as pictured below of your engine will have overheating problems:

Originally Posted by 520SC