starter 429 feedback please

[keane]

Hello to all, haven't been on the site much lately, but am now close to starting my 429/c6 in my dax cobra build, anyone who has read my previous posts knows I have had major problems with engine mounts etc. Anyway I finally got a starter from alterstart in Dallas, it is tiny and gives me the clearance with the sanderson headers I have,I put the starter on and turned the engine over, there was a horrible grinding noise,on taking the starter off one of the ears was broken!!!!!I had that welded and tried again, still no joy, if you crank the engine over by hand without the starter fitted no noise, put the starter back noise again,it sounds like the block plate but I cannot see any witness marks, I put tape over the starter and fitted it turned over,removed,checked for marks nothing! has anyone else experienced similar problems? also are these gear reduction starters far noisier than stock? finally would there be a problem in starting up without the t/convertor fitted? I haven't finished with the tranny yet so was going to bolt up minus t/c and do the initial start up and shake down as the body won't fit with eng fitted,so it will be coming out soon. I'm picking the body up on thurs this week so need to move on,sorry to bang on, feedback please. Thanks as always. Dave Keane uk

[cobrashoch]

Dave - Dependant on the flexplate you are using you will need to attach the converter AND the tranny. Some flex plates(stock) are wimpy and do just that, they flex. Pay attention as you will have to set the starter in also with the correct spacers to make sure the gears match up. Aftermarket flex plates are much stiffer and required for racing in our parts. They are cheap insurance. As for the small high torque starters, well they do have their own sound. What's good about those guys are they resist heat from headers better.
cobrashock

[gman]

For what It's worth, I used th same starter, same hurrendous noise. Took out tranny, checked everything put back together. Same thing. Got a fully charged battery an tried again. Sounded better but still a little odd to me. Got so mad I just kept using it. Figured if I couldn't figure it out and it wasn't hurting the ring gear on the flywheel I would just get another before final assembly. Started the car 100 times now and it doesn't sound as bad. I was going to ask the same question about gear reduction noise. Anybody?

[James Neal]

Not really familiar with this particular starter, but most of the mini starters I've dealt with are extremely Quiet! and bullet proof. If the unit makes that kind of noise something is wrong,wrong starter, not machined properly,improper installation, wrong flexplate or flywheel and they do flex but it should mesh correctly.I would contact the manufacturer and have him help you. check part #s make sure it is correct application. If it broke a gear something is definitely wrong. I would STRONGLY suggest starting your motor with trans and converter bolted on, you have patiently waited this long do it right! remedy the starter problem first then finish up Trans and conv. or borrow one for start up. This is the most critical start up of your motor,the Transmission stabilizes the engine by the trans mount and the centrifical load it puts on the motor with the spinning of the torque converter. I was taught never to start a motor with out a load on it and complete stabilization. Ten seasons we never blew a motor, from 400hp to 2500hp. Good Luck!

[Tom Wells]

Hi Dave,

You need a spacer!

The starter needs to have .060"-.080" clearance if I recall correctly. I had to fabricate a spacer using a large flat washer from a rear axle set. It was about 1-1/2" ID maybe? It just fit over the nose of the starter and moved it axially toward the front of the engine by about .040" or more.

If you haven't fixed this yet let me kow and I'll try to find one and measure it for you.

Tom

[427sharpe]

I believe Motormite (HELP stuff) sells a Ford starter shim. Ck with a local PepBoys or Oreilly's.

[keane]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I have just got back from Greece so haven't checked the mail for a while, the night before I went on holiday the beast roared!!! albeit not for too long, due to noise, the replies about the starter are interesting, Alterstart state no shims are required, however prior to start up I shimmed the flange with a couple of washers about 30 thou, seemed to help(thanks Tom) I also need to add a solonoid as the way it is set up it throws straight in. On another note my mate has just about finished his dax cobra with a 429/tremec combi, and he is having major problems with the motor running hot, The guage goes up to 3/4 (whatever that temp is) it does not continue to climb but runs at too high a temperature,any suggestions/advice to get a 429 to run cool, he has the large capacity dax radiator fitted( recommended for american v8's) and a std(new) water pump, the motor is rebored/rebuilt, also fitted with an electric fan. Any feedback once again appreciated. Thanks Dave

[Tom Wells]

Hi Dave,

Glad you got going

Re: the hot 429, there are a number of possibilities, including but definitely not limited to the following:

1) need to check for a standard rotation water pump. Turning one backwards reduces flow - there do exist serpentine-belt models meant to rotate the other way.

2) Make sure all the air is out of the system. This is a major one as it took me about six heat/cool/burp cycles to get mine totally purged.

3) There is a flat, thin metal plate that goes behind the pump called the separator plate. A gasket goes on either side of it; one toward the block and one toward the pump. Leave it out and hot, hot, hot!

Others will probably add to the pile...

Tom

[Mohuska]

I too am having a problem but mine is a little different...I was starting the car fine (new motor with new gear reduction starter)...anyways....started fine last Friday from my house....ran down to the gas station and stopped the car to fill up....Started up and GRINNNDDDDD .....I shut it down and tried again for just a second....same thing......SH*T!!!!....had to get a flat bed to get it back home....NOW WHAT?????

[Tom Wells]

Hi Mohuska,

Did your new starter come with shims? I had to call the supplier to get the spec for how much clearance is needed between the tip of the starter & the flywheel.

That screeching noise is one of those "end-of-the-world" noises, isn't it

Tom