514 Ford Crate Motor or 408 Stroker

[Fitz]

I know, I know. I loose track of where I said what. I had a 347 stoker and loved it. Bad little motor tricked out some. Had it dynoed and all that. Had fun on the Bondurant track with it too! When you are standing around scratching your butt, picking your noise, and telling lies about our cars, I wanted to say I had a big block. Actually, I wanted to put a Cummins Turbo Power Stoke but didn't have the money. Maybe in a Cooper sometime...........Is it Friday yet?

[ByronRACE]

I never said the 385 series was the best engine in the universe. I said it was hard to beat; power per dollar; especially when building something in the 600+hp range. FE's are fine, but spendy. Windsors are cool too; but I don't like the geometry when the stroke gets long, and the price starts to go up in a hurry as well. Most everyone stops the power budget when the money budget runs out. If you have a budget; a 385 series will end up giving you more power per dollar...and who doesn't want power? If you don't, OK, but I havn't met a cobra guy yet that bought the car for any other reason.

Sure, the 385 series was used in school busses. It was also used in NASCAR. The 351W was (and is) used for worse things that school busses. I sell EFI dataloggers to a company that uses cheap crate 302s and 351s for industrial pump stations, that doesn't mean they are bad engines.

And I agree; if you can't service the engine (tight bay), it's not worth it. My car (west coast cobra) happens to be designed for the 385 series. Easy to service; nothing in the way. If it's a shoe horn and you have to install the plugs before the engine goes in; of course not!

I'm not disrespecting any of the ford V8's mentioned. I'm just stating my perspective. If it offends you, sorry.

B

[bibt1272]

HEY HEY HEY Lets not bad mouth the 454 chevy I like this engine I have it in my vette great engine. But lets not put it in a cobra. I like the 514, great engine for the mony and realiable. They put it in school busses ,its so realiable. Stay with the big block!

[MidOHasp]

No disrespect, B...

I'm like the really annoying moderator guy making sure everyone is fair. Sometimes I need moderated, too!

Fitz, why didn't you say you just wanted to say 'it's a big block'...??

FE motors were used for irrigation too.

Everything is a piece of $h!t in another life.

I wasn't bad mouthing the 454 just think it's a bad idea in a Cobra. I want a Camaro or Chevelle SS w/ a 454 some day.

[BANDIT 1]

Let's get some things straight, the 385 series engine has been around since the late 1960's. The 429 engine was available in many cars including the Mustang and Torino. The 429 high performance, 429 Cobra Jet, 429 Super Cobra Jet, and 429 BOSS engines are hardly concidered "school bus" engine's. The 385 series engine is the most raced Ford big block in history (Nascar, Top Fuel, Funny Car, Pro Stock, Monster truck, drag boats, and "street" racers just to name a few). The 385 series big block has had the most Factory development of any Ford big block engine.

The 385 series engine was developed in the late 1960's, so like the 454 Chevrolet engines of the time they ended up in Trucks and luxury cars in the mid 1970's.

Before I forget, the same old "buy a small block Cobra because it is better on a road course" is a joke. Most Cobra's will only get as close as the parking lot of a race track, and if they do they might be there 1 - 3 times. On the street, the small block Cobra owner is only faster than a 385 series big block Cobra owner when it comes to the excuses of why the small block Cobra lost the race.

Ask the 385 series Cobra owners on this Forum how many small block Cobra's beat them in a race on the street, my answer is none...

[Spoony]

Well, I just got back from my engine shop, and my "BUS MOTOR" is about to go to 600+ ci and 750+ hp. You want your kids riding home from school in that bus? And yes I'll still have the NOS system plugged in!

[Mr.Fixit]

Having driven 100's of cobras with every conceivable engine that one would find, I will say you definately don't need to be on the track to notice how much better the SB cars handle compared to the BB cars. I would own either, but if picking, I would choose a 400+ cid SB. But I don't go (anymore) to cruises or shows, pop the hood and spend all morning BS'ing with other waxers, if I did then I would have to have a BB.

[Ron61]

Just my $.02 worth. I have both a BB and SB Stroker and I like them both. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages. I like the SB far more for the type of racing I used to do which was road racing. I never did any drag racing, but I can see easily where the BB would be superior for that. In the 60s I drove almost every type muscle car that was available and the 426 Hemi has to be one of my favorites. Also loved the 427 Ford tunnel port I had but it was a worthless engine for the street. I do think the 385 series is probably better than the FE mainly because of the newer technology. Having said that, it is a blast to drive the BB and just touch the accelerator and feel that torque trying to twist the car over sideways. Now tell me I don't konnw how to sit on the fence.

Truth is, there is no better or worse I don't think. It is all about what the individual likes and wants.

Ron

[MidOHasp]

Bandit, I bet you more than one 385 series Cobra has lost to a SB cobra - even on the street. The original question posed here was about a STOCK crate 460. A school bus motor/F350 motor. Not on a custom built 429 SCJ. I was responding just to that. I am not saying every 385 series motor is boring. And a stock 351W is a station wagon motor. But a specially built stroker has soul, same as a 429 boss.

But that's ok, I'm not trying to say a W motor is any better anyways. I said it's a station wagon engine in the beginning. It's all what you make of it.

What Ron said - do whatever the hell you want! It's a big ol' V8 with big ol' pipes in a fat sexy Cobra.

Spoony, what are you going to do with that motor?! The car weighs 2500 pounds. Do you have a 16 speed in that sumbich??

[jjtarnow]

Mr. Fixit's "But I don't go (anymore) to cruises or shows, pop the hood and spend all morning BS'ing with other waxers, if I did then I would have to have a BB." is a little unfair. What the heck is wrong with talkn' cars with other people who love to talk cars! All I can say is that when I turn over my 514 next to other Cobra's it causes attention...absolutely incredible sound...orgasmic!


Josh

[BANDIT 1]

I was unaware that School Bus companies were buying 460 c.i race engines out of the "Ford Racing" catalog, my mistake.

[Mr.Fixit]

Originally posted by jjtarnow


Mr. Fixit's "But I don't go (anymore) to cruises or shows, pop the hood and spend all morning BS'ing with other waxers, if I did then I would have to have a BB." is a little unfair. What the heck is wrong with talkn' cars with other people who love to talk cars! All I can say is that when I turn over my 514 next to other Cobra's it causes attention...absolutely incredible sound...orgasmic!


Josh

Notice the "anymore" thus admititng that I used to do such. Now I just own cars to drive them, and I don't give a care who's impressed. I spent too much time with street rodders when younger. I got tired of waxing a car all day saturday, driving it somewhere sunday morning, cleaning it again when I got there, and spending the rest of the day BS'ing. But if I still was into that, I would have to have a BB, as a small block wouldn't do it.

[MidOHasp]

Bandit, don't take me too seriously.

For Christs's sake.

And no station wagons have Ford Racing 351w's in them either.

I guess my sarcasm is lost a little on an online chat forum, but seriously...take my context into consideration a *little*

Come on guys...has all the pissing been done yet? I'll admit I got a little of my own on my leg, but it looks like the decision's been made. Let's all be friends like we were 2 days ago.

[LETSRCE]

MidOHasp, since your just breaking balls, why would you get pissed at BYRONrace's post's. Take it from someone who know's, Byron has forgotten more on Ford engines then you will ever know
He was just stating fact's, dollar for dollar a "385" series engine will make more HP than a windsor or FE engine. I have owned all 3 engines and still have a turbo'd 351 in my Lightning pickup, if we were closer you could race either my "farm Truck" or my cobra, which has a school bus engine so it has no soul, but it will spank your little stroker
Also you say it's ok to go big block if its a FE, why will that make your REPLICA more correct? LOL.
Just bustin' balls, no one get upset please

[jjtarnow]

..Amen!

[MidOHasp]

Don't worry Joe, I won't get upset. B's post pissed me off because it didn't sound like HE was just breakin' balls. It sounded like HE was an expert and nobody else knew crap. Don't assume he will forget more than I will ever know. We've never met each other, my friend. By the way, it sounds like you're not REALLY just breakin' balls, but rather trying to tell me you don't think I really was....and trying to maybe piss me off. That's ok... I took my quaaludes today.

I never said it wasn't OK to go with a 385 series motor, and I (from the beginning) understood the "bang for the buck" point. But when making a "bang for the buck" point, usually people don't start talking about how weak and crappy another motor is when it really isn't. I'll admit, I'd never want a 427ci Windsor unless it was a Dart Block. The question was for a "square" (4"bore, 4" stroke) 408. Not a lot of reliability concerns there.

I never came in here touting windsors. I think everyone's missed the point of my original postings, which I'll admit - if everyone missed the point, then I probably didn't do a real good job explaining the point.

But come to think of it, I've explained my point many times. Never talked about makin' my replica more correct anyways, or I wouldn't have a Windsor. But yes, there are varying degress of accuracy and/or homage to the original. Sure, my glass SPF with totally new (and incorrect) suspension is a replica. But isn't it at least closer to reality.... a little more believable..... with a SBF than with a SBC? Maybe even more so with a 427 S/O? Or a 289?

Bottom line for me (that elusive point) has always been that you're not going to get a straight answer in a biased forum. I clicked in to the thread because it was on the "recent threads" column. Only after I got in here to post a reply did I see where I had ended up. But I thought I'd still offer up my opinion in a light-hearted manner (read my first post). B took me too seriously and went off on a diatribe of how I'm wrong on all accounts or whatever... slight exaggeration, I'll admit it. Whatever.

Your SPF holds a 429 perfectly well. A FFR will be a tougher fit but more than possible. I certainly didn't come in here looking to get into a "my balls are bigger than yours" contest because had I wanted that, I would have gone to a VTEC owners forum and I would've won.

When I was in college, the business majors were cut from a different cloth (generally speaking) than the engineering majors.

In a different life now, I've realized most of the different Cobra owners are cut from several different kinds of cloth. Most of the 385 series owners are cut from a different cloth than the SBF owners or the FE owners.

MOST......

M-O-S-T...... (!)

If you are an exception, I don't need reminded that it's not ALL. Because I said MOST. Most of the stroked 385 series owners I've known have had laminated dyno sheets and can't stop talking about their 600, 700, 200000000000 horsepower.

MOST .... MOST of the FE owners talk about how they have an original S/O motor or at least an FE in general.

MOST..... MOST of the SB owners talk about how their motor was a good value, lightweight, spins up like no other, and has a beautiful sound.

And, to answer someone's earlier posed question, I didn't get a cobra just to go fast. If I just wanted to go fast, I wouldn't have ended up with a $40,000 roller that I thought was the nicest. I would've socked that $$ into a motor. So no, I don't think ALL cobra owners have their #1 goal of being fast. There are faster and quicker cars with much less soul.

I know y'alls 600+ cubic inch, blown, nitroused, blah blah blah blah have WAY bigger balls than my teeny little small block. I have exactly what I want. You have exactly what you want, I guess.

Just remember I never came in here touting how wonderful windsors were. And don't ever assume that the guy on the other side of your T1 line knows less than some other guy will forget. I (and those who actually know me) will judge who has forgotten more than I'll ever known - and there are PLENTY of them out there.

I'm not a bad guy, I promise. Y'all have a good day and enjoy your cars. To me, that's the #1 reason we have them!!

*peace* ok?

[Fitz]

Does it really matter? There are really two groups; [1] Lucky owners of a 60s originals, either a 289 or 427+- and [2] Those of us who have replicars. Line them all up and they all look about the same;..... open the hood and see who had the most $$ to spend in that department. (PS) I guess you could extend both groups into the rightous conservative group (most of us)........ and the idiot, liberal, give away the farm, feel good about everything; give our school kids pass fail but not grades, flower carrying, anti war, anti Bush, anti abortion, anti noise, anti fuel drinking loud dam car; anti SUV, social want a bees; anti 75 mph, raise your taxes, anti corporation, social bee..is..ebody and those who know what is best for you. And they can spell right! Which one is "Me" .............Whooa! calm down boys!

[MidOHasp]

Which one are you?

It doesn't matter!!

Enjoy your car!!! whoo...

aahhh...

Calmer 'n you are, dude. hehe.....

[jjtarnow]

Can't we all just get along?!!

[MidOHasp]

yes.

in case anyone didn't see it, i was quoting john goodman's character in the big lebowski...

i just saw pics of byron's "ludicrous" project and I am a believer.