514 Ford Crate Motor or 408 Stroker

[Fitz]

The latest since I started this thread; some nice stuff going on this car. Soon to start!

[Fitz]

Anybody had their 460 actually dynoed? If so what kind of dyno? and what were the HP and Torque #s and could tell me what is in the engine. Need some comparison numbers?

[LETSRCE]

I have no soul 513" 429. Don't like saying 514, people think it's a crate motor, can't have that. 91 octane pump gas it made 514 rwhp & 514 rwtq. Not bad, never over heats idles at 800 rpm and will twist to 7000 rpm for when I want to make the high reving 351 guys cry. Don't get me wrong I like windsors, I have 2 of them in other cars, one makes over 700 hp 800 tq. Still open the hood on a cobra and a FE or 385 will make heads turn. Just my .02

[Fitz]

No dyno takers. Hummm!

[mikiec]

Dyno, schmyno.. Lets see who can pass a few gas stations with out needing fuel?

Did you get the throwout bearing fixed? Are you taking it on Route66?

Mike

[Fitz]

[quote]Originally posted by mikiec


[b]Dyno, schmyno.. Lets see who can pass a few gas stations with out needing fuel?

Did you get the throwout bearing fixed? Are you taking it on Route66?

Do you know something I don't know. Gordon took car to show @ Knotts. We are going to the DYNO on Wednesday I hope. Want to get it set up for the Route 66. I am nervous about this gas thing.

[ByronRACE]

OK, then define your requirements. Start with required rear-wheel horsepower and required gas mileage. When you find your happy compromise, I can make a suggestion.

400rwhp and 30mpg is unrealistic from a Ford V8. Both can be obtained, as well as more extreme examples, but they are generally mutally exclusive.

One thing is certain; if mileage is a requirement you should be looking at modern EFI systems. And, if both power big and good mileage is a requirement, you should be looking at EFI power-adder combos with active air/fuel feedback using turbos or centrifugal superchargers that are minimally parasitic at low-rpm. And, tallish rear-gears 3.00 or taller, with an overdrive manual transmission will help as well.

[cobrashoch]

Or you can build the engine small with low compression then go to big numbers spray for occasional blasts. I've see engines with hairdryers too that are on hard vacumn to 3000 rpms but see 11 lbs boost wide open. Now that's a wild fuel curve for any engine to tune.
Bryan - c/d is in snale mail sense sunday.
cobrashock

[427sharpe]

In a daily driver, big block. Motor will never break a sweat to provide all the power you want and the big fat torque curve is unbeatable. In a track car, a stroker small block so you can get the chassis to handle. I guess the easiest way to put it is if you want a sports car, go small; if you want a muscle car, go large....and remember...the larger the better either way!

[ByronRACE]

Recently, a reputable builder over on the 385 series forum on network 54 weighed his 550" stroker 385 series engine. It came in under 600lbs (550-560 I think) using a production block and aluminum heads. That's less than a 2003 Cobra engine, and only a tad more than a comparable (similar materials, aluminum heads) windsor.

The weight difference isn't much when using modern components; I think most of this weight thing is psychological...the scales don't show a big difference. I'd compare this small vs big block weight argument to arguing that installing a 3.8L V6 instead of a 5.0L V8 is a good move because it saves weight. The modern V6's make nearly as much power, so why not? Think of it in that light and it doesn't make much sense. If power to weight ratio was everything, we'd all be putting turbo 4-bangers into our cobras to save weight; much like the rally cars do.

[BlueRooster]

At the rear wheel. Engine has almost 15,000 miles.

460/520/dual quad/custom cam

[LETSRCE]

What size carbs are you running?
The A/F looks pretty lean.
I'm running 2 750's on my 513 with a A/F of 12.6. It made 513rwhp & 513rwtq.

[BlueRooster]

2 600s

I hit 12.6 at 4800 rpm. Ill tell you the plugs dont look lean. They look rich. I have always been concerned that the richness would wash the oil off the cylinder walls. the dyno is WOT too. Which I never am if I want to live long. I wish I could dyno with a stedy throttle at around 2500 to 3500 RPM which is where it is at 75% of the time.

Dane

[ByronRACE]

Why not install a wideband air/fuel ratio meter? They're sub-500 bucks these days, and accurate.

www.widebandcommander.com

[cobrashoch]

Byron/All - My 545 weighed 545lbs minnus the super, but with a carb, bonnet, alt. and starter. I most reciently replied back to a Chevy sorta guy about this on this site and I think he thought that I just made things up, together with some block weights that I put into that thread. Yes, you are dead on with your weight assessments and your power assessments. I just put a rebuilt all iron 351W in my sons pickup truck that weighed 655lbs with all accessorys, and they gave it 230 horsepower. Hmmmmmm.
Another thing I can't seem to get through to these guys is the fact that aftermarket 385 aluminum blocks ALL, I repeat ALL, weigh more than most factory production blocks - and that includes the heavyweight D0VE blocks. I hear that there was some lightweight blocks made in the 80's for Glidden, but I haven't seen any either.
I've been looking over a late FI block with longer bore skirts lately.
I have one that weighs 183lbs that hasn't been cut on. With copious use of a grinder and using a esoteric parts selection process my bet is I could build a 385 using that block to come in at around 450lbs complete I'd bet. So much for the weight argument between big/small blocks. Plus such a carburated engine could be built fairly cheap too.
cobrashock

[BANDIT 1]

I have been saying this for years on this forum that the new 460 engines weigh less than a stock 351 engine. I have also said many times over that the two "real" problems with the 500c.i.+ 385 series engine in road racing is the size (mass) of the engine and the 700+ ft./lbs. torque the engines put out.

[cobrashoch]

Bandit 1 - the 4.3 stroke crank I have in mind weighs less that a stock 289 crank. You know the rest of the drill. I think I would like to try Schubeck solids with a mild cam, and degree it for high rpms, then throw the lightest flywheel on I could find. Should make for a interesting twisties car.

www.schubeckracing.com

cobrashock

[ByronRACE]

It's mighty hard to beat the 385 series for power per dollar, power per pound, and durability per dollar. I can't believe some of numbers the low-buck combos the 385 Series forum guys put together. One guy out there got a complete iron headed CJ engine for $75 from some bone yard, swapped to a 460 crank, overbored it, threw in some cheap TRW pistons, a flat tappet cam, ported the heads, tossed on a victor and a dominator carb and viola, 625ft-lbs and 560rwhp. Total cost...a couple grand total! Holy moses, how do you argue with that...I think I paid more than that just for the heads on my engine.

Byron

[cobrashoch]

Byron - I don't think the small engine guys really get what that really, really means. A few years back the bone yards were full of Mopar 440's and 426 wedges and such cheap combos were common too. Have you looked at the prices of Mopar muscle cars lately? They haven't made a factory 385 powered Ford for a while now either.
cobrashock

[wboss429]

big,or nothing