Dana 44 verses BBF

[Tom Porter]

Can Anybody tell me if a Dana 44 IRS will hold together behind a 514? I will be using a Tremec TKO. I realize you can break just about anything behind a BB, however I do like the idea of the IRS. I have been talking to Hunter Cobra for the last couple of weeks and I think I have decided on their kit. Does anybody have any insite about Hunter Cobra?

[RICK LAKE]

Tom Porter Tom you can break any thing if you beat on it hard enough. Is this a jag rear or a vette rear?? The jag rear in good shape will handle 450 hp without any problems. If you are going for more Like I did, chromepoly stub shafts 30 spline carrier, heavy duty bearings and hub assemblys. A carrier cover cap support would also help. I race and have 17" 335 pilots on the back, they are soft and tough on the rearend. The other tires are 15" BFG and don't have the same abilities to corner and grab the road. They are easier on the rear. No 4000 grand hole shots. They Jag with the heavy duty parts is go to 600 hp. The vette rear you would go the same way, heavy duty bearings, 30 spline stub shafts, heavy carrier, Cap girdle for the carrier. You should be OK. I have 2 spare rears for my car. You may want to do the same. Hope this helps. Rick Lake Ps with that big motor you will smoke the tires for the first 3 gears anyway

[exrodder]

Tom,

I agree with the above post. All depends how much power you HAVE to have. As far as Hunter's, you will have a hard time finding nicer people to do business with. Got mine on the road last year and was just to Ford Carlisle on Friday and enjoyed every minute of the drive down. Car goes down the road better than any street rod that I had. Any questions, give me a shout and hopefully I can answer them. Email me and I'll get back to you with my phone number. If you happen to call Hunter's again, tell Randy and Sue hi from the owner of # 31. They are great people as are the rest of the Hunter crew.

Tom

[Back in Black]

Nothing beats the 9 inch Ford for strength, and if you want IRS....


http://www.kitcarmag.com/howto/5588/

http://www.geocities.com/~concourswest/

I would never use a Dana 44 behind a 514, no matter what anyone says.. my rear end is a 9 inch straight axle and all Strange Engineering internals. It's one thing I do not regret paying extra for, and in fact gives me wonderful traction and confidence. 3.00 ratio posi and 33 spline pro-street axles... 6 speed Richmond overdrive tranny, McLeod 12 inch clutch

[Tom Porter]

I agree that the 9" rear is the strongest. I just like the fact the 44 is an IRS. It seems that I seen somewhere a company that makes a 9" IRS but I would probably have to sell the farm to pay for it.

[Back in Black]

But how expensive will a breakdown/breakage be, at speed in your cobra? One thing I have learned with my cobra is that you cannot cheat the horsepower genie. If there's one weak link the "genie" will find it! Don't cheap on what's behind a shakin' and breakin' monster like the 514!! And constantly check everything (nuts/bolts) for torque and condition/function.. the 514 shakes almost everything loose, eventually..

[decooney]

If a built 9" is an option for you, go for that. It all depends on how your are going to drive the car. I recently tried what I thought was a mild 3k launch (on the 2nd try) to 1/4 mile my car. The result was it absolutely shredded the spider gears and twisted my stub axles; so its a nice expensive upgrade to fix it properly in a Dana44/Jag,etc. The word seems to be anything over 450hp/tq on the Jag/IRS turns out to be a matter of when, not if. I prefer the ride quality of the Jag/IRS to straight axle on 90/91" wheelbase Cobras, so the only choice in keeping it is just take off easy. If I build another Cobra in the future, it will be less horsepower too because there is no tire but a slick that will handle it anyhow. Best regards.

[Hotfingrs]

I use a Dana 44 Vette rear, and have never had anything break. Have used the rear hard for 3 years now, running low 10 sec quarters at over 130 mph. The Viper also uses the same rear and with some mods probably pushes 700 horse easily, and they still hold together...Also used a Dana 36 before the 44 with no problems, but probably got lucky on that one. Have run Vette suspensions hard for the last 15 plus years, 10 sec cars, and have only had one stub axle fail, during a burnout. Just my $.02

[Back in Black]

Now I'll admit that I have not really put 100% to the rear wheels off the line, yet. The cobra was new last summer and I mostly took it easy with good cause. But the few times I poured it on from say 5 mph rolling start, the 12 inch wide P-zero pirellis seemed to have wonderful (relative) traction.. especially when I got her into into 3rd gear. I attribute much of this to the Strange Engineering posi system, but also the Pirellis. Of course if you went around doing this on a regular basis, would be detrimental to tire life and your wallet $$$

[RICK LAKE]

Tom Porter There are different 9" rears from ford They have different size bearings for the carrier and the pinion. Only large bear 9" are better. CWI makes a nice rear with the larger axles and bearings. Era has come out with a outside rear disc brake set up that is nice with a single shock for the rear. Duane Decooney You broke your rear because of wheel hop and 3g drops of the clutch with good tires on the car. You made a quad shock setup to help stop this problem and from your testing have fixed the car to a 95% fix. You also have a 500+hp motor in that monster RIGHT and you drive that car hard at times. I have spys watching you Duane Back to Black You are running a 6-sp richmond. I have the same for my car. Have you read the output rating on this trans? 450hp 450tork. I am sure that you are also over the limit of that trans and one 4g away from blown gears in that case. As of this time Richmond is not maken any stronger parts for this trans. This is why I race a G-Force 5 speed, good for 700hp and tork. The rolling starts have saved that drive train from major damage and not doing it every day. Loc tite and wire will keep those bolts tight Tom Porter G-force came out with a input shaft kit and cluster for the T-56 because of the hp and all the breakage of these trans. You are going to put 40-50G in this car when all said and done. I think common sense will save the breakage on the car Tom I race at the Run&Gun every year for the last 5 years I drive 1K miles to race I drove out in 98 drove the car 2 miles and broke a stub shaft bearing. That sucked. I learned that I go run the course 2 times and put the car away and save it for racing the class. Some guys go out and beat there cars for hours and the car breaks and it's WHO'S FAULT?? Aways the cars. I think you get the point. You didn't say what trans you are using? That trans may only have a 400HP rating TOO. Compare the prices on the CWI and the 9" rear. CWI sells stronger center also, you don't need to buy the whole thing, however anything the is chromemoly is a plus, stub shafts,half shafts, bearinghousings. I would get the rear cover for the dana either way. I think a higher gear, say 3.31 or 3.54 is easier on the drivetrain than 3.00s. Good luck Tom Rick Lake

[Back in Black]

I agree.. the Richmond is MY weak point..was aware of the RATED hp status of Richmond. If the "genie" does not find that weak point in the meantime, I am currently considering alternatives such as the G-force.....time will tell

[aumoore]

Tom

I have Hunter #009 and it has held up pretty well thru about 10 road race events(Gainesville, FL and Roebling Road) using a Dana 36 which is the little brother to the Dana 44. Chevy put the 36 behind the automatic C4 Vette's and the 44 was used behind the Manual Transmission Vette's. The bid bad Viper uses a dana 36 ring gear so I assume it uses a Dana 36. Randy has a few customers with big block cars and he suggests a 44 for these cars. Robert Lightsey has a Hunter with a 502 chevy crate motor that he has blueprinted and it puts out somewhere near 530hp at the flywheel. He has run this car at run and gun and it finished in the top in almost every category it was entered(I think he won his category in the autocross).

As for breaking the dana 44 I doubt you will have any problems unless you plan on drag racing using drag slicks. For road course racing and drag racing using any street tire you will be fine. Remember a Hunter with a big block will weigh about 2600# whick is much less than BIB's fat pig West Coast car.

The Hunter Chassis and Corvette suspension were a big selling point to me. Randy Hunter has to be the most honest and caring person in the entire Kit car industry along with Paurl at Finish Line.

p.s. welcome to the Hunter family

[decooney]

Hey Rick,
You are correct sir. Once I installed the wheel hop kit, and some stickier tires with less air in them, it only took two tries to break it, ugh, shred it I mean, like shredded cheese. I normally don't ever launch my car and drive it pretty tame so this was a first/last try on a Ford day at the track. I know of three others with cars like mine with Dana44s/Jag IRSs with the exact same result; e.g. twisted stub axles and damaged spider gears. It appears others have had some good luck. Still putting mine back together. I sure like the new 30-spline stub axle/gear kit. And Yes, it appears that I do have to machine out the carrier to fit the new stub axles. Talk to you later.

[RICK LAKE]

Decooney DUANNE DON'T MACHINE THE CARRIER OUT!!!!!!!!! It will crack at the bearing ends. You need to go with a jeep dana 44 30 spline carrier. You will have to tap the bolt holes in the new carrier to work. I will call you late to night. DON"T MACHINE IT. Buy a Locker for it, I will call. Rick Lake

[decooney]

Hey Rick,
Too late! e.g. machined .015 off per side, for a total of .030 diameter removed. A friend said the whole carrier is heat treated throughout, not just the surface. I looked for new/replacement carriers with 30 spline, but need to talk with CWI to see what they actually do when they install these kits. Do they machine stock carriers or supply new ones... the 64k question we discussed. Talk to you later.