Four Valve Heads?

[ERA Chas]

Gents,
Can any one shed light on four valve heads for 385's?
Were they ever produced or just prototyped, by whom and approximately when? Do any still exist?
Any info greatly appreciated.
Thanks,

[cobrashoch]

None that I'm aware of, but that don't mean they are not out there. As a 385 enthusast, I'd say we couldn't get past the two valve hemi "shot-gun" heads for high power. There was a four valve Cleveland head a few years back that didn't run as well as two valve stock type production heads. And that's the problem with all four valve setups, they scrub off too much power with valvetrain loses, unless you go to a overhead cam design.
And boy would that be a expensive and bad trip to go on.
cobrashock

[xlr8or]

Wasn't there a company called Aero something making them a while back? I remember seeing the heads but not sure if they were 385's or not. They did have BB Ford.

[cobrashoch]

Aero was the 4 valve pentroof Cleveland heads mentioned above.
Not to be confused with Aerohead heads here in Indy, a division of Indy Cylinder Heads. Did I mention that those 4 valve heads didn't work? Matter of fact they plain sucked.
cobrashock

[Daniel Jones]

> Aero was the 4 valve pentroof Cleveland heads mentioned above.

I think you mean Arao:

http://www.araoengineering.com/

Thunder Power marketed a similar 4 valve pushrod head for the BBC:

http://www.bacomatic.org/~dw/chevy/bb/bb.htm

> Did I mention that those 4 valve heads didn't work? Matter of fact they
> plain sucked.

Do you know someone who actually tried these? Arao has been around for
quite a while but I've never come across someone who has any experience
with them. What sort of problems did they have? I saw recently that one
of the Pantera guys bought a set of these but he hasn't run them yet.

Dan Jones

[Tim Brewer]

Why?

[cobrashoch]

Dan - I wrenched a set for a local guy. Matter of fact it was for a Pantera too. Engine lost about 800 RPM's on the big end and the power band was totally straight from idle to about 6200 rpm's.
Cam was a .65 lift roller with about 11 to 1 slugs and 392 cubes.
Putting back a worked over set of 4 barrel heads the engine came alive and and gained over 150 horses I'd bet, and that's with a one point in compression loss. It also ran very slightly better yet with a set of slightly worked over Aussie heads, over the four barrel heads. He's looking at a set of the new Blue Thunder heads now. Time will tell.
I've said it before and will repeat it again. Unless you have a overhead cam setup, a four valve setup will scrub off too much power to make it worth your while for performance. There are however a few advantages 4 valve heads have on low to medium performance apps. on some supercharged under "boost" conditions, and those heads above seemed to take "crappy" gas a bit better too. Overall from a hot rod viewpoint your WAY ahead to stay with a 2 valve ohv setup I'd say.
Those heads sure did look neat on that Pantera though,,,,,,,,,,,,
cobrashock

[Daniel Jones]

> Engine lost about 800 RPM's on the big end and the power band was totally
> straight from idle to about 6200 rpm's. Cam was a .65 lift roller with
> about 11 to 1 slugs and 392 cubes. Putting back a worked over set of 4
> barrel heads the engine came alive and and gained over 150 horses I'd bet,
> and that's with a one point in compression loss.

Thanks for the info. I've suspected those heads wouldn't make any more
power than a decent set of pushrod heads. DeTomaso actually had a couple
of cylinder heads prototyped. One was a 2 valve OHC head for the 351C.
I suspect that it didn't make as much power as the 4V heads too. The other
looked a lot like a Gurney-Weslake but I think it was meant to go on the
289 and 302 engines in Mangustas.

> It also ran very slightly better yet with a set of slightly worked over
> Aussie heads, over the four barrel heads.

That's surprising on a 392 cube engine. The Aussies do have better port
velocity than the 4V's but they give up a lot of flow on the intake side
to 4V's. I've got a set of Aussie 2V's on the 351C in the Pantera but
for larger cubes, I usually jump to the closed chamber 4V's or, better
yet, a set of aluminum Ford Motorsport high ports (A3's, B351's, C302's).
The high ports are really hard to beat. As much or more velocity than
Aussie 2Vs with 50% more flow.

> He's looking at a set of the new Blue Thunder heads now. Time will tell.

Dennis at the Pantera Performance Center has used those but was kind of
disappointed. Apparently they took a lot of chamber work. I talked to
Art Francis at Blue Thunder about the heads and he was pretty insistent
that they wouldn't make a good street head due to the large bowls. He
said they need lots of RPM or cubes to work properly. I'm using a set
of C302's on my new engine (Fontana block, 3.85" 4340 forged crank,
4.1" bore, 11:1 compression). Even with the relatively small ports, they
flow over 330 CFM intake and 230 CFM exhaust at 0.600" lift with very good
low lift flow. The velocity is excellent.

The new D3 Ford Motorsport heads are very much like a raised (again) port
C302B. The canted valve angle is back.

Dan Jones

[cobrashoch]

Dan - We used the same Weiand X-celerator with no port matching done and a 750 holley on both the Aussie headed motor and the 4-barrel motor. At that time I though the intake was too much for the Aussie motor and not enough for the 4 barrel head motor. The 4 barrel heads were big chamber smog heads that had extensive work done to them by Russ at Indy cylinder head. (both expensive and good you can be sure of, with bowl work and completly polished)
cobrashock