460 FORD oil pan

Dominik · #1 (**permalink**) 02-12-2005, 10:04 AM

Dear 460 friends,

to cut a long story short:
by changing the oil pan for a 460 from rear sump, as delivered by FORD, to front sump - which pan do you use to have an oil dip-stick?
The "FORD Motorsport" one (I hate chrome!) does not have a provisoin for a dip-stick.

bad enough, that FORD does not supply the front sump version on the block, now I face another delay of two weeks, or I relocate the chassis crossmember to fit the rear sump pan...

no rock 'n roll tonight :-(

Dominik

jdean · #2 (**permalink**) 02-12-2005, 10:24 AM

Dominik,

Front sump pans, which came on the vast majority of 460s, and all passenger car 460s, do not have a dip stick hole in them. The dip stick goes through the stock water pump on the top. This is what prevented me from going to a rear sump pan......the rear sump pan dipstick on the side would not clear the headers.

So what I did was baffle the front sump so that oil would not just rush to the rear of the block under acceleration. This is a very simple mod. to make.

Hope this helps...

John

jdean · #3 (**permalink**) 02-12-2005, 10:31 AM

One more thought.....if you look on ebay, you should find a lot of stock steed front sump pans for sale.

Also, if your engine has an aftermarket water pump, like an aluminum pump, it looks like these can be easily modified to use a dipstick on the front. It would involve drilling a 3/8" hole in the top of the pump, then insert (with loctite) a 3/8" short piece (about 1") of tubing so that 1/2" is out of the hole. If you do this, a stock dipstick will fit nicely and be accurate with a front sump pan.

Oh yeah, you already know the oil pump pick-up would need to be changed.

John

Dominik · #4 (**permalink**) 02-12-2005, 10:31 AM

John,

that sounds to easy to be true!
what you day is that there is a plug on top of the water pump that I can undo and stick a dip-stick in?

cool, unfortuntely the engine is in the (locked) workshop and I can only check on monday (it's sunset here right now).

gives me hope!

Dom

Tom Wells · #5 (**permalink**) 02-12-2005, 12:05 PM

Hey Dominik,

The 460s have two different water pump housings: with and without a dipstick hole. Here's mine showing (not very well but best I can do at the moment) the water pump housing location for the hole:

There's just a plastic cap on the hole at the time the picture was taken but that is where the dipstick goes.

In the US it's pretty simple to go to a junk yard, whoops, auto recycling yard and get whichever type you need.

I also see some on eBay; do a search on '460 timing'.

BTW I use and very heartily recommend the Canton 7 QT road racing pan.

Tom

millennium200 · #6 (**permalink**) 02-12-2005, 01:25 PM

Dominik,

Most after market pans such as Canton, Aviaid etc. will put a bung for a dipstick on the passenger side oil pan kickout.

cobrashoch · #7 (**permalink**) 02-12-2005, 05:58 PM

Dom- Drill a hole in the pan and stick a universal dip stick in there. They usially have a o-ring on the outside and draw up with a nut inside the pan.
The hardest is part marking the dip stick to the level you need.
I just did the same thing to a Jeep with headers, and had to do some creative bending on the tube to get it through the headers. I cut down a extra long reach dip stick out of a old Dodge van and used the stock bottom markings.
If you want there are higher cost kits from Milodon, Moroso etc. that seal up to the pan a bit better and use a screw in tube that can be trimmed.
Many catalog racing pans don't have provisions for a dip stick. I'm guessing that it is done on purpose because each application on a universal pan sold is different, and oil sticking it is a really, really simple thing to do.
Don't forget to check for windage tray clearance of you are using one and you choose to come in high on the pan.
cobrashock

Dominik · #8 (**permalink**) 02-12-2005, 09:33 PM

Tom, the pic is good, I check later today.
I need confirmation, so we open the shop on this sunday to have a look - maybe have a beer or two...

I marked the position for a potential hole in the chromed pan already.
Not sure where it should be, probably where a main cap is, that a swinging rod does not catch it...

I keep an eye on Canton, as well as windage trays, but as you realised: parts are not just around the corner here!
I wonder if there is a dip stick with weld-to pan fitting, or I "pry" one off from a Chevy...

Thanks for all the advise,

Dominik

Dominik · #9 (**permalink**) 02-13-2005, 10:14 AM

No dip stick hole provided by FORD motorsports
well not as bad as the lost tru-arcs from my buddy's 514 which has cost him a block after 3 runs...

I am sitting here with a useless piece of chrome called motorsport oil pan, a pan from Canton costing a month's income.
I should buy that T70 coupe, which has a Chev.

thanks for your support,

Dominik

cwmcobra · #10 (**permalink**) 02-15-2005, 09:47 PM

I bought what I was told was an OEM style front cover with the stick & tube here in the Detroit area. Yep, the stick is installed in the front cover, not the water pump. I've attached a picture for clarity.

Chuck

Dominik · #11 (**permalink**) 02-15-2005, 10:00 PM

Ron,

your idea is probably the neatest. I gave my parts dealer two days to come with an answer, either pan or universal dipstick.
either would have taken two weeks to bring in, if he had responded.

I did cut the crossmember, put the rear sump pan back on, had my dipstick back and two beers.

I bolt the engine in w/o rubber, was happy with this for 7 years in my old car.
vibrations were not annoying, and torsional rigidity improves.
In fact, the old car (RAM) had a cut crossmember as well, to access the sump/pump. I wanted to make a bolt-in, but never did.

Chuck,
no such luck on my 460 from FORD MOTORSPORTS.

thanks for the pic,

Dominik