514 Broken Ford Flywheel

jeffw · #1 (**permalink**) 04-19-2005, 08:49 PM

Has anyone else experience a broken flywheel on a 460 or 514 with the following combination - Ford 176T Flywheel, Ford Mini- Starter, and a Lakewood bellhousing?

Last fall I found lots of broken flywheel teeth after one of the worst grawling noise I ever heard.

The combination mentioned above is destined to fail, I just wondered if anyone else had this same experience.

Flat-Tyler · #2 (**permalink**) 04-20-2005, 04:01 PM

Not sure about the the BB motor . The Mcleod bellhousing for the 302 was always close to spec for the starter, but the holes were misaligned. Needed to elongate them.

Lakewoods ran into the same problems. Currently one FFR member has a starter that wont hit at all. (Not that uncommon.)

I would look hard at the housing throwing off the angle of the starter.

Frank.

scootter · #3 (**permalink**) 04-21-2005, 11:52 AM

I just had my crate 514 apart to rebuild it. I could not tell you what bell housing I have. I have the small starter with mine and everything looked good when I took everthing apart(starter, flywheel)( 13k miles). I do notice that when it starts up, the starter rattles for a second or two after the motor fires up, but it seems normal.

jeffw · #4 (**permalink**) 04-22-2005, 05:01 PM

Here is a photo of how a Ford mini starter, Ford 176T flywheel, and a Lakewood bellhousing line up. As you can see the teeth hit the flywheel, but just barely. I think the original flywheel I got was an after market one, not a Ford. This may have been part of the chipped tooth problem.

Iedrilled the bellhousing to get the starter lined up correctly, now my car is running fine and this issue is gone for good.

jeffw · #5 (**permalink**) 04-22-2005, 05:08 PM

Here is a picture of the original flywheel the new Ford flywheel. You can see the wear on the teeth along with the different tooth configuration. Both gears are 176T and cae from the same motorsports dealer.

Just wanted to make everyone aware of this problem so you don't have the same problem.

jeffw · #6 (**permalink**) 04-22-2005, 05:16 PM

You can see what was required to get the starter and flywheel properly lined up.

kitcarbp · #7 (**permalink**) 04-22-2005, 07:24 PM

Hey, Jeff Thanks for the heads up, I am building my West Coast now but I am using an OEM cast iron bell housing from a Bronco not the Lakewood hydro-formed steel aftermarket one. I decided on the cast iron bell housing for an easier time aligning the bell housing to the block. I have not bolted my Ford mini-starter to the bell housing yet but the pictures you posted will make me look at this carefully. It looks like your flywheel was constantly rubbing against the starter gear, thus damaging the flywheel teeth, is this correct ???? Didn't this make a noise from day one ???? Or did it happen suddenly ? I am using the same Ford racing 176T flywheel from Ford. In this case the starter and flywheel combo work together correctly, but if the bell housing starter bolt holes don't align the starter correctly, then all bets are off I guess. Please clarify, what flywheel did you finally use, part number please ???

Its a beautiful WC, best of luck.

jeffw · #8 (**permalink**) 04-24-2005, 09:28 PM

I removed the solenoid to be able tobring the pinion gear out without retracting. That is how I took the picture.

The teeth chipped out because the pinion gear was only catching on the edge of the flywheel.

I am sure everyone with the Lakewood, 176T flywheel and any offset starter pinion arefaced with the same problem. It is a lakewood problem.

I stayed with the Ford 176T - M6375-Z460. By changing the hole locations the starter and flywheel are okay.

wboss429 · #9 (**permalink**) 06-13-2005, 11:53 PM

mini starter = problems,stock starter wont fit?u said 176, this is a factory 429 tootk count, is ur starter in the right holes,should be in the outer ones for this one,(176) inner holes for the 390 flywheel,if we have to run a min starter, we wont run the engine,period

bibt1272 · #10 (**permalink**) 07-26-2005, 12:13 PM

Had the same problem with the mini starter not lining up. Purchased the summit starter, sum-820048 , the gears lined up using the existing holes on my lake wood bellhousing.

webebob · #11 (**permalink**) 07-26-2005, 02:29 PM

You just found out the hard way that the Lakewood 15220 bell is for the old 184 tooth flywheel. It may or maynot engage the 176 tooth, but either way, it usually sounds awfull.
A carbide bur and a welder is "normal" first time starter installation for this combo.

Good luck.

ps, the McCleod bell seams to be a less stressful installation.

kitcarbp · #12 (**permalink**) 08-10-2005, 10:15 PM

Well I finaly assembled my flywheel and bell housing and checked the starter gear mesh to the ring gear. Here is my set up for info. I am using a 6.25" deep cast iron OEM bell housing for 385 series engines, I am using the Ford motorsport Mini starter and the Ford Motorsport 176 tooth flywheel. I also removed the starter solenoid so I could check the mesh. It engages at the right angle and the right depth (toward rear of car) but the clearance between the starter gear tooth tip and and pinion gear root is about 0.050". I found a service bulletin on the net that says it should be 0.020" for all starters and flywheels no matter what type. Even with 0.050" it looks like it has plenty of engagement but I would like to hear what others may have measured for clearance or an experienced engine builder.

Thanks