Cooling a 460/Head Gaskets - Page 2

Scufty · #21 (**permalink**) 07-26-2006, 08:46 PM

well wizard I have a 427 and my car runs around 200-230 if its really being pushed ....tore the whole engine down a week ago and all new gaskets ...exactly the same temp ....what would be the high end for temp guys? I have seen it around 225 but thats in stop and go traffic

wizard · #22 (**permalink**) 08-01-2006, 07:31 PM

Well, I got the gasket situation figured out as to direction, top and bottom but just couldn't pull the trigger. Was supposed to start yesterday but my gut keeps telling me something else is the culprit. I'm not opposed to pulling a carb, intake, two sets of headers, loosing the rockers to get at some of the bolts, lifting the heads and having them machined (They're off stupid not to do it) and then put it all back together including valve adjustment. But to do it and find nothing wrong which statistically is probable, is not what I want to go through, at least not right now
Soooooooooo, I ordered a Ron Davis Radiator instead. They had the closest size to my needs and the price was real reasonable. Perhaps, I'm delaying the inevitable but does anybody think I'm going about this the wrong way?

Garage10 · #23 (**permalink**) 09-30-2007, 12:11 PM

Hey wizard
How'd your new rad work out? Did it solve your problem ?
Can anyone say what the highest temp you would want to run a 460 at for an extended period of time is ?
Sorry to bring this one back up but I just hit the road in a WCC with 460 and am seeing 205-210 temps when ambient is only 60F so hate to see what happens when it hits 95F outside next summer.

Thanks

ByronRACE · #24 (**permalink**) 09-30-2007, 12:27 PM

My West coast with a pair of SPAL 13" pushers and verns humongeous brass "race" radiator (and no puller fan and no other mods) won't get above 165 at cruise even in 90deg weather. That's a centrifugally supercharged/injected 385 series (435cube 460 based engine) with a 180deg thermostat and no oil cooler, and a half-filled block with aluminum heads running pump gas.

If I drive it hard, I can get it to 185 or so, but it cools right back down if I keep the fans on...and/or if I'm moving down the road.

I have a pair of 1/4" lines that run from the back of the heads and bypass the thermostat (to remove trapped air, race car trick). I'm going to restrict that flow and see if it allows things to heat up faster and/or get up to operating temp. I want to see at least 180deg within 10 minutes of run time...right now I can go 15 miles before I'm over 150deg F.

Pictures (including fan stuff) at http://www.racesystems.com/cobra

wizard · #25 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007, 07:00 AM

Garage10

The Radiator actually did not solve my problem but with the matching shroud and Spal fans, I actually wound up with it not being able to run over 160 even in 90 deg weather. I also think that changing the expansion tank helped a some as well. Mine was high in and high out so had a custom one made hi in and low out. This insures air gets trapped where it should. (Interestingly enough, I saw another WC Cobra at the Woodward cruise in and he had Verns tank plumbed correctly.) Since I added the new fans and tank at the same time, I can't be totally sure which helped the most. With the new tank I was able to add about a half gallon more water which tells me I still had a lot of air despite all of the other "tricks" I had used to get rid of it. But I think the fans did most of the work and here's why I say that.

I smoke but not in the house. One morning last winter I stepped out in shirt sleeves in 16 deg weather and was still quite comfortable. No wind. Several mornings later, the temp was about 35 but with 10-15 mph winds. Froze my butt off. Does this make my point?

I've since added a 180 thermostatic switch to cycle the fans and she sits at 180 all day long regardless of outside temp and we saw temps over 100 for about a two week stretch here in Ga this summer.

I've want to respond to this thread, but in a manner that educational which draws it out. I won't say I'm an expert now, but I have learned an awful lot and I can tell you I KNOW which solutions are good and which are Urban legends. I also understand the physics of cooling now but don't want to start a thread which begins an endless discussion over which way is better, such as should you use a high flow water pump or not. (OK Just for giggles, a high flow water pump is definitely the better way to go.)

Send me an email and I'll give you my phone number if you want to discuss it in depth. I'm on East coast time.

By the way, my 460 runs noticeably stronger at 180 than 210 which is probably where it was designed to run. (Mine is a 1971 block.)

wizard · #26 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007, 07:03 AM

PS Don't belive CFM ratings on fans. Those are generally measured under ideal conditions. If you want believable CFM rating, look the the Amp draw on the fan motors. More amperage means more power means more air.

ByronRACE · #27 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007, 09:45 AM

The plumbing on my WCC is bone simple.

There's an electric water pump mounted low at the bottom of the radiator.

Twin -16 lines run from the pump to the face of the block.

The water comes out of the thermostat housing/filler neck (modified gessford piece) and back into the radiator. This is the high point. There is a 5/16 hose from this to an overflow/recovery tank.

That's it. No "cobra" expansion tank, or anything like it.

The only other thing is the two 1/4" lines that run from the back of the heads and bypass the thermostat...simply to remove trapped air and allow me to fully burp the system before even starting the engine.

A picture may be helpful here...

Garage10 · #28 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 08:43 PM

Sorry I didn't reply sooner. Been busy trying to figure out why my car won't start. Appears to be the magnetic pickup. Wizard, when you say shroud and fans what size did you go with ? Pushers or pullers ? Byron. Your engine looks meeeeeeen and very straight forward cooling system. The two lines from heads. Did you actually notice any difference when you added them ?
Thank for all the info
Brent

wizard · #29 (**permalink**) 10-03-2007, 06:57 PM

The radiator is a Ron Davis of the shelf 31X16 and the shroud is theirs as well just for this radiator using Spal fans. Twin pullers which are probably 15's. The set is rated at 47 amps versus the 19 amps the twin Flex-a-lite's I had on previously. All I can say is that when they come, it sounds like a fighter jet spooling up.
One other interesting thing is that once the cooling started working, I couldn' get her over 160 even with a known good 180 thermostat but that was way back when the weather was much cooler. Good luck with the MSD.

ByronRACE · #30 (**permalink**) 10-03-2007, 08:04 PM

I've always had the 1/4" lines from the back of the heads on this engine. Tell ya what, I'll clamp it off next time I drive the car and tell you if it's any different.

B

Garage10 · #31 (**permalink**) 10-04-2007, 08:04 PM

Thanks Guy's
Yup it was my mag p/u. It had zero ohms. Replaced today and it fired right up. I've been slowly getting the air out of the system and added water wetter and more distilled water. Today when I ran, her temp didn't go over about 198 but it was 55F out too. I also retimed it and made a few carb adjustments that might have helped.

Take care
Brent