Pulley sizes

[Tom Wells]

Ooops!

Just remembered I have a photo of the belts:



And yes, the pump is a standard rotation pump.

Hope this helps clear things up

Tom

[Tim Brewer]

Bruce, I had Dennis @ Lonestar make my shroud out of polished stainless when he was there. Then later had Eric and Rob @ Keith Kraft fill the rest in with aluminum. I should have done it myself and saved some $$. The poster board template to aluminum will work great.

Fred, I noticed you said you had tried a gutted thermostat. You know, I've never heard of that befor this week until I wanted to see what thermostat the guys at Keith Craft had installed for me, and that's exactly what they did!
So, is 13% overdriven seem to be OK?
Thanks,
Tim

[392cobra]

I don't think there would be much benefit going from 13 to 17 %.If all else fails,that could be an option.If for nothing else,peace of mind.

Just to be sure,you aren't runnning lean and your timing is correct ? I really don't doubt this has been covered.

Where would I get the stainless steel and what guage for the top shroud ?
The hot engine heat being pulled back thru the front of the radiator without the shroud sounds VERY possible in my case.

[Tim Brewer]

The guys at Keith Craft said they had my engine on the rich side. There's bound to be some sort of metal shop in Dallas somewhere to get some polished stainless, I got mine through Lonestar.

[392cobra]

Did you change your mufflers from the standard LSC ?

[Tim Brewer]

I change my mufflers to a set I got through Finishline,(made by Boffin Motorsports) The glass packs on my stock L/S sidepipes blew out within 500 miles. I used to wonder what that glittery stuff was floating around in my garage after I fired my car up......
Tim

[payaso25]

Check and make sure your bottom radiator hose is not being sucked flat when the engine speed goes up. I had this problem on a 429 where the hose did not have the coiled wire inside.

[John S Peterson]

Boy all this brings back some very bad memories with my 429.WE ARE TALKIN HOT 240 - 260 a real PIA I tried or thought I had tried everything, I even went up to a 23lb cap,but never would know just when it would decide to blow it's top. Right now I have a new 2 core aluminum radiator 19 in x 24 in. I angled it in at the top thinking it would expose more surface area, got rid of my original March pully now running a smaller one (smaller than yours) Rad now has filler on rad not inline near t-stat, 18 lb cap, wrapped my headers, no anti freeze, 15 inch puller fan on a thermostat...life is great, rarely excedes 200, on highway usually 195, fan cycles on and off when idling in traffic. There is more.... if interested..
John

[rblong]

Just got back in town last night amd did some prefab with posterboard and it looks like it is not going to be too bad.My lower shroud is brushed aluminum, so that is what I will use for the top. We buy all kinds of metal/aluminum in our business so I will check for some suppliers Monday and let everyone know.

[392cobra]

Bruce,
I was looking at mine yesterday trying to get ideas on what I want to do for a top shroud.

Allan H. and John Ross both have LSC's.One a sb,the other a bb.Both 600 hp and up Keith Craft's.Neither have cooling problems and both have top shrouds.

I am really starting to believe that a big part of my problem is the radiator pulling the hot air from the engine around and into & thru it.

I'd be real interested in what you find out.

[392cobra]

Daily Dumb Question # ?

Wire from sender to VDO tempt guage :
Does it have any effect on the tempt reading of the guage if the wire is in direct contact with the intake manifold ? Where it is running is underneath the runners on a Victor Jr..Getting soaked with heat.

[rblong]

I contacted one of my suppliers this morning - MM Manufacturing 817-334-0034. I can buy about any thickness aluminum or stainless. Have to buy in a full sheet, but it is not expensive. I did not price the stainless since I want aluminum, but as an example I can buy a sheet (4' x 10') for $70 (.040), $60 (.032), $50 for (.025). It is mill finished, but can be brushed, polished or whatever. I would be happy to pick some up for anyone wanting it.

I was not in my truck today so I will go tomorrow and pick me up a sheet of either .025 or .032.

[rblong]

Just to prove my recirculation theory before fabing by shroud I took a thermometer and took readings at inlet of radiator top to bottom with hood open and closed. I see no change with hood open, but with hood closed I am recirculating 25 degrees from the top of the radiator to about 1/2 way down.

[392cobra]

Just to be sure I understand..

The air going into the inlet side is 25* above outside ambient halfway down with the hood closed ?

So,on a 85* day half the rad is seeing 110* ?

[ByronRACE]

If the car overheats sitting still at idle, the dam will make a minimal improvement. Yes, it will tend to block hot air from the engine bay from being sucked back into the face of the radiator, but over-all, most of the air will be drawn from the front of the radiator where the cool air is anyway. If it overheats sitting still, I would look at the radiator quality (total surface area of internal cooling fins...fin density.). Modern aluminum radiators have 20+ fins per running inch. Older and/or cheaper radiators are far less dense.

When moving down the road, the dam will have a profound impact on how much air goes through the radiator. In fact, a chin spoiler hanging directly under the radiator (assuming it's vertical mount) can drop water temps 20deg F when the car is moving. The spoiler is enough to make the path of least resistance "through the radiator" instead of around it. Look under most Ford passenger cars and you'll find one of these. If a chin spoiler does that much, just imagine what a complete dam can do.

Can you post pictures of your fan/radiator arrangement? That might reveal something. If you don't have a puller fan and a complete shroud covering all the surface area of the radiator with at least a 1" gap between radiator and shroud, your radiator isn't nearly as efficient as it could be. In addition, there's a whole bunch of new puller fans available that you may not be aware of...some OEM, some aftermarket, and some as high at 5000CFM in a single unit. With a picture, I might be able to make a suggestion.

Byron

[rblong]

Fred - You are exactly correct in your understanding. Doesn't do it with the hood open because all the CFM the fan is pulling through the radiator is blowing out the hood, but when you close the hood I am guessing the air is somewhat building up in the front of the engine bay and pulling some hot air over the radiator since it is not shrouded. I have a full lower shroud, but there is about 3 inches between the radiator and the hood with it closed. There is no question it is recirculating hot air sitting still with hood closed.

Byron - I did exactly what your suggesting, but I used poster board to make a template. I have the aluminum sheet and have rough cut it and will fit as soon as I get time to finish fab. I do not overheat at all driving anymore (I installed a lower temp water thermostat than I had) but it creeps up some idling so once I shroud it if I still have the problem I will do the fan shroud and possibly a larger CFM fan. Mine is a Spal puller with Griffin radiator.

Thanks and I will keep everyone tuned in.

Bruce

[rblong]

I completed the top portion of the aluminum inlet shroud Saturday. Going to pull out and use as template for final shroud (poster board worked well, but I have a couple rough areas I need to adjust) when I am confident I have solved problem. Made a significant difference while driving and I am not recirculating any air anymore stopped. It was relatively cool here this weekend so I need some hot weather to move forward with testing, but sitting in my shop (about 80 degrees) my fan was only running 40-45 seconds and cycling back off (hood open or closed).

I will probably fab a fan shroud next. Keep everyone posted as I move forward.

Bruce

[392cobra]

Bruce,
Sounding good !

You say significant difference while driving, what did you notice before & after ??

On your shroud,are you doing it the width of the radiator or wider ??

I've picked up some poster board to do the same.Sounding like you may have found the answer.

[rblong]

I pulled the thermostat out first so that it would not interfere with my readings and was running 195ish at about 80 outside temp cruising. 200 idling at stop light with the fan running long durations After the shroud I am running 160-170ish cruising (of course with no fan on) and 190ish idling at light with fan cycling and running less than a minute.

I am not sure it will be all I have to do when we hit 105, but it is certainly much better. As I mentioned I am going to go ahead and fab the fan shroud since it will improve my coverage for the whole radiator. Then I can always go to a higher CFM fan if needed and I will not have wasted money or time on what I have already done.

I made the shroud about an inch wider than the fins and attached the shroud to the radiator at the top. There are gaps at the side of about 1/2 inch (want less). The new shroud mates up to the old lower shroud and I used a few screws to mate them together. Of course then you have to cut a couple of slots for your hinges to go through when you close your hood. I am not completely happy with the lower or new upper. The lower was not built as well as I would have done it and I overcut a couple places on the new upper (it is hard to get a real good fit with the posterboard as compared to fitting the aluminum). As soon as I get it all sorted and am comfortable I have solved the problem, I am going to build a whole new upper and lower. I had to buy a 4 x 10 foot sheet of aluminum so I have plenty to work with. It is cheap anyway and I liked working with it. Once all complete thinking about using my grinder with a wire wheel and doing a brushed circle pattern kind of thing.

Keep everyone posted.

Bruce

[undy]

I switched from the Spal fan on mine to Flex-a-lite's 180 Extreme Black Magic.
I comes with a nylon shroud (I modified to fit) and is rated at 3300 cfm. It runs hotter than it did before. I'm a bit dubious of it's 3300 cfm rating.

As far as the at idle rear to front air recirculation issue, that's an easy one to diagnose. With the hood closed pack all gaps from the top, sides and bottom of the radiator with rags to eliminate air migration. Fire it up and see if there's any temp difference.

I think the key is a better shrouded fan. I also think that Lone Star's wiring to the fan is inadequate to handle the "higher amp" fans too. I plan to do some voltage drop readings when I get a chance. If there is a drop I'll run some #8 wire from the battery to the fan motor.

Dave