Roush VS. Ford Racing Engines

Gburg · #1 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 08:14 AM

Which would you choose a Roush or Ford Racing powerplant? I have seen Roush crate engines priced twice the going price of Ford Racing crate engines, which offer the same H.P. output. I question paying the Roush price when Ford Racing has the same product for half the $$$$. Most of the Cobra MKIII replicas that I have seen have Ford Racing engines.

Thanks,

Gburg

Clois Harlan · #2 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 08:27 AM

Honestly, I wouldn't buy either. I would have George Gessford, Keith Craft, or one of the FORD engine builders build my engine. Get it exactly the way you want it or you will never be happy.

Clois

CobraEd · #3 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 08:28 AM

Aside from the Roush Hype, take a look at the quantitative differences. Much of the Roush stuff is cast. rods, crank etc. Ford uses forged pistons, rods, and crank. I can build the hp. All I would want from the engine builder is a solid and bullitproof foundation.

Gburg · #4 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobraEd

Aside from the Roush Hype, take a look at the quantitative differences. Much of the Roush stuff is cast. rods, crank etc. Ford uses forged pistons, rods, and crank. I can build the hp. All I would want from the engine builder is a solid and bullitproof foundation.

I am not an engineer. What is the difference between forged and cast engine parts?

Thanks,

Gburg

CobraEd · #5 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 08:56 AM

Forged be's more betterer!

CobraEd · #6 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 08:59 AM

Forged metal of any type (steel, iron, aluminum) is far more dense and as a result, far stronger. After being cast, it is pressed or squeezed by tons of pressure to compress the lightly bound cast molecules into a denser more solid structure.

SPF1061 · #7 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 09:28 AM

Hi Gburg -
I am sure there are many other excellent and likely better engine choices out there. I am not going to address that. You asked about two specific motors and I happen to have first hand experience with exactly (and only) those two motors, so here's my .02

First - Cobra Ed - you've got your compnent description just backwards between the Ford and the Roush engines - a typo, I'm sure.

Second - I have owned and run both of these motors - hard. Not abusively - just hard.
My spf originally had a Ford Racing 392 stroker. I put 30,000 hard street and track miles on this engine before I feathered the throttle a little too much for a little too long on the backstretch at Carolina Motorsports Park. The engine went lean, the hyper pistons went into melt down and the engine totally grenaded. Basically my fault - but I would never own another engine with hypereuratic pistons. Ford of course has figured this out as well, and they now put forged pistons in the 392s. The Ford racing motors are built with good (not the best) components in an assembly line fashion by experienced assemblers that I choose to believe take some pride in their work. I think the Ford Racing engines offer great value. BUT, they are definitely built to a price. When the engine was putting out it's max, it always felt like it was doing just that - maxed out.
When I replaced the 392 I was looking for more horsepower and better quality. I looked at lots of options had narrowed it down to Roush, Keith Craft and a custom NASCAR builder in NC. It so happens that my spf dealer had a customer back out on a Roush 427R and my dealer had it sitting on his shop floor and he wanted it gone. He offered me a "good" price and that was that. I do not regret going with the Roush for a moment. There is really NO comparisson between the Roush motors and the Ford Racing motors. The Roush motors are built to be the best they can be and you will pay a premium price. The block is a DART 4 bolt main, siamese bore, 9.5" deck height full on racing block rated to withstand nearly THREE times the horsepower and torque my engine produces. This goes right down the line for every component used in this engine - crank, rods, pistons, timing chain, ratarata. The word is OVER BUILT. This engine produces it's (substantial) rated output power and never comes close to straining to do so. It is SNOOZING while it launches me down the dragstrip in mid 11s on street tires! I get the feeling it can do this for a VERY LONG time, and will eventually die from old age - NOT fatigue or over stress.
...and that's the perspective from the driver's seat of my car.

Happy Motoring!
-Steve
Richmond/VA

CobraEd · #8 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 09:33 AM

Absolutely not. Roush uses all cast stuff and hypes the HP. Ford uses all forged.

Cashburn · #9 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 09:36 AM

For a 385 series Big Block I would say Ford Racing or private builder.
Currently the only 385 series motor Roush offers is the 588RX.

If you were looking for a small block hands down the Roush is a better motor than Ford Racing and actually compares in price too. Broken in, dyno tested, 2 yr. warranty, and complete from air cleaner to pan, alternator to starter. Nothing has shown up coming close to how nice the Roush motors are. They even come on a $40 or so Engine stand.

Good Luck!!!

CobraEd · #10 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 09:38 AM

.
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...tegoryId=10763

"cast crank & rods" !!!!!

Given that nothing is stated about the pistons, you can bet they are only hyperutetic. . . . again

They do a good job of marketing!!!!

Clois Harlan · #11 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 09:38 AM

Good to here true life experiences.

When I was refering to an engine builder I was thinking of an FE engine. I should have thought it out a little more before I started typing. Good to hear that the Rousch engine is as well made as it is.

Clois

CobraEd · #12 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 09:42 AM

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...tegoryId=10763

Forged crank, Forged rods, forged pistons, ARP bolts, full floating wrist pins!!!!! Facts speak! It simply does not get better than this. Marketing hype on an all cast engine is, . . . . . . . . . MARKETING HYPE!!!

Don · #13 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 09:44 AM

Steve, a little help not having the technical background, what are the pros and cons:

Basically my fault - but I would never own another engine with hypereuratic pistons. Ford of course has figured this out as well, and they now put forged pistons in the 392s.

Is hypereuratic and hyperutectic the same, just a difference in spelling ?

..............thanks

CobraEd · #14 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 09:53 AM

The Roush engine does come with an, . . . . . "Air Cleaner".

Cashburn · #15 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 09:55 AM

CobraEd:
Roush AL motors are Cast internals. And not produced anymore. Jegs must have bought a couple.
Roush R Motors are all Forged.

The only small block that Ford produces with all Forged bottom end is
1. The SHORT BLOCK you listed above
2. M-6007-C392FT/RT 475 HP Assembly.

Rest of Ford Racing motors are
392 430 Hp is only forged pistons.
351 385 Hp is only forged pistons.

All 302 based motors are cast everything.

385 Series motors vary on which one, but none have a forged crank.

Based on this post being in 429/460 talk.
I figured Gburg was looking for a 429/460 based motor?????
And if he was going to buy a short block and build it himself he probably wouldn't be asking about crate engines!?

TRIG · #16 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 10:04 AM

http://www.roushperf.com/pdfs/427R.pdf

ROUSH 427R is all forged and a better value than people think given the total package.

trig2275

SPF1061 · #17 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 10:20 AM

Cobra Ed -
Take a pill and chill. No need to shout. I can hear you. Take a look here:

http://www.roushperformance.com/pdfs...tion_Sheet.pdf

and here:

http://www.fordracingparts.com/crate...eightliter.asp

The 427R and the M-6007-D392 engines are the ones I have owned and I was speaking of. The 427R is forged everything. The M-6007 is a cast crank.

Besides the forged/cast non-debate, the two motors are night and day difference. Both in cost and performance. I've put a lot of miles on both of these motors. I'm not making it up. In my personal, first hand experience, you get what you pay for in both of these motors. If you don't agree, fine.
Have a nice day.

Gburg · #18 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashburn

For a 385 series Big Block I would say Ford Racing or private builder.
Currently the only 385 series motor Roush offers is the 588RX.

If you were looking for a small block hands down the Roush is a better motor than Ford Racing and actually compares in price too. Broken in, dyno tested, 2 yr. warranty, and complete from air cleaner to pan, alternator to starter. Nothing has shown up coming close to how nice the Roush motors are. They even come on a $40 or so Engine stand.

Good Luck!!!

The Ford Racing motor is not complete, ready to install, then? Alternator, starter, air cleaner and oil pan has to be added before motor install?

Gburg

Gburg · #19 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Based on this post being in 429/460 talk.
I figured Gburg was looking for a 429/460 based motor?????
And if he was going to buy a short block and build it himself he probably wouldn't be asking about crate engines!?

What is the difference? I am using "crate motor" in the generic sense.

Gburg

SPF1061 · #20 (**permalink**) 08-24-2006, 10:35 AM

Hi Don -
Yes. The same thing - I can't spell.

I'm not sure what the advantage of the "hyper" pistons is over forged - simply cheaper I think. One disadvantage in "hyper" pistons over forged is: if the engine runs too lean the combustion chamber temperature goes way up. When the temperature skyrockets the "hyper" pistons essentially turn to glass and shatter. If your twisting aboout 6000 rpm at the time the residual damage can be catastrophic.

This would not happen with a forged piston.
-steve