460/400 How to ID in a car????

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Need help on identifying an engine.........a buddy has found a 1977 Lincoln Mark ??? (land shark) in a junkyard, still running.......he's getting the rear end and a few other parts, I'm getting the motor/trans.....dirt cheap........He's not a big Ford guy (sorry,he know chebbies), but says it looks like a 460, in which case I want it.......junkyard man thinks it may be a 351M/400........I have never seen one of these cars with a 351M/400 in them, but that doesn't mean they did not come with them, everyone I've seen had either a 429 or 460 in them, depending on the year model......

I do not have the time to look it over and it's over an hour away, the junk man will pull the motor/trans and my buddy will pick up everything and deliver it to me.........he has looked over the car and under the hood and can not find any factory tag/decal anywhere stating the "cid" and other info you would see on the tags sometimes found on the valve cover, also the top of the air filter is missing, so no ID there either..........

I don't know that much about big block fords (I"m pretty good with small blocks though),question is, how can we be sure the CID of the motor while still in the car????????? what can he look for to be sure of the engine CID????????? He will be by there later this coming week and check it out again........

Thanks for any help.........

David

[Woodz428]

If the 2 choices that it might be are the 460 or 400, it's a pretty easy check. the 400 is a derivative of the old 351C and is the only Ford engine family with fuel pump mounting bolts that are vertically arranged as opposed to the horizontal on the others. The 460 also has an aluminum removable front cover the water pump attaches to and where it's fuel pump attaches. The 400, like the 351C has an intregally cast iron front section that the water pump and fuel pump attach to.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Woods;

Thanks for the help, I'll pass it along to my buddy to check out, should be fairly easy to see with the motor still in the car..........I'm willing to bet it is a 460 as that was the most popular enigne for these big tank looking cars............either way, the car starts up just fine and the motor does not seem to "smoke" even if you rev it a little, should make a good "core" enigne to rebuild for a future project.............
Thanks again...........

David

[Rick Parker]

Dave:

In the mid 70's Lincolns all the 400's & 351's (with few exceptions other that Lincolns) were 2 bbls carb engines. Looked very much like "Boss" type Cleveland headed engines. As I recall some 429's in 72 had 2bbls too, but all the engines in Big Land Yacht Lincolns were 460 4bbl spread bore Carbs. Look for 4bbl manifold and pent roof type stamped steel rocker covers. Torque monsters, but didn't RPM too much.

[Tom Wells]

Hey David,

Here's some data from another web site:

QUOTE:

Some easy ways to tell the difference between 335s and 385s:

335 series (351M/400): Eight valve cover bolts per head
Dry intake manifold (the thermostat is in the block)

385 series (429/460): Seven valve cover bolts per head
Wet intake manifold (the thermostat in in the intake)

If you happen opon other Ford engines:

Windsors have six valve cover bolts, and FEs have five.

ENDQUOTE

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Thanks for all the responces, I forwarded the info to my buddy and he called me back as he was looking at the motor, it is indeed a 460...............
hows 175 bucks for a running complete 460 with the C-6 trans, pulled out and loaded in your truck??????????

Now another buddy wants it to rebuild for a 4x4 mud racing truck, offered me 500 bucks sight unseen.........I think I'll take it..........

David

[BPWilliams]

I have a 385 block but used the 429 crank and components. With the SVO Cobrajet heads(2.3 Intake) and a solid cam she puts out 400 at the rears all day long, rev her up to 6K and she has been running for 4 years now, perrrrs like a cat.
I have seen quite a few 460 take the ghost because they are not ment to be wound as tight. (I am sure to get feed back on that statement)

Anyway Good Find is it a 4 bolt truck block?

Brian

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Brian;

4x4 mud racing has really taken off around these parts in the last couple of years, about 50/50 ford/chevy........the 2 largest classes say they have to run OEM production blocks/heads, and no more than a .060 overbore........454 chevys/460 fords are the dominant motors and most 460 guys turn their motors 7,000 rpms racing on a 300 dirt drag course and a 1000 foot horse shoe shaped mud pit........their motors hold up qutie well and win their share of the races.........also have a few buddies drag racing 460s and turning them 8000 rpms and love the motors............

right now the hot motor combo is the 460 block with the 428 SCJ heads of the early 70's.......one engine builder has been buying up all the 428 CJ/SCJ heads he can find as well as the 429 PI heads....he's building some top notch motors, last race his motors won 1st and 2cd in 2 classes!!!!!!!!! all were 460s with the old 428 SCJ heads..........

I think as in any motor build, quality parts (rods/rod bolts/cranks/etc.etc.) and a quality build make all the difference in the world......that usually decides just how long you can rev up the 460 and just how long it will hold together..........

David

[BPWilliams]

From experience I have seen three 460 SVO crate motors blow up the bottom ends on our race circuit this year. All of them had the piston, or rods at the pistons let go.

So back to your statement yes it does matter who builds them and that is a heck of a lot of rotating mass at 7K so make sure they do it right.

Good find on the block, and good going on the profit! If I see any 385 stuff in this neck of the woods I will let you know!
Have fun

[Tom Wells]

Hey David,

If'n yore-a gittin' serious 'bout them thar 385 series motuhs, y'all better git over ta http://www.460ford.com/index.php rat now !

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Tom;

Actually not that interested in them big blocks, I'm pretty handy with the small blocks and plan to stay with them.......my bro-in-law has been after me to go in with him on a 4x4 mud racer for some time now and he has the truck, just needs a good,strong 460 and C-6 tranny..........I really have too many irons in the fire for this project and he does not have the time needed nor the money to fund a truck (or the know-how to put one together) that would be competitive, so I sold the engine/trans to an engine builder............this is the same engine builder that does the machine work on my engines, so it pays to stay in good with him........I have found engines for him in the past and he has always treated me right when it came to my machine work............

I know of another "junkyard" that has at least 3 running 460s and 2 running 429s, but can never seem to catch the owner there when I'm in the area, guess I'll have to "camp out" at his place one day and wait him out.........

PS; Last year while I was at the engine builders shop checking on some stuff he was doing for me, he offered me a "test ride" in a truck he had just finished up for a customer.It was a Ford F-150 4x4 mud racer with one of his "special 460s" in it.....we went on his test track (300 dirt drag strip) for a test run.......he nailed the gas and never even hit the nitrous, after the run he turned that demon around and before he took off again, I got out the truck and walked back to the shop, SHAKING!!!!!!!! I think the front tires where touching the ground for about the first 75 feet, after that the truck was bouncing soo much, I figured we were going to flip any second, and he NEVER backed out of the gas till the end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! them mud racers are a lot crazier than I thought.............

David

[Tom Wells]

them mud racers are a lot crazier than I thought.............

[wboss429]

I Didnt See Anyone Say The Easy Way To Id A 429/460,,, Just Look At The Top Hose,351c/351m/400 Dont Have Water Thru The Intake,all 429 460s Do, So If The Top Hose Goes To The Intake Its A 429/460,