460 Aluminum block and heads available?

[767Jockey]

I've just learned that the is an aluminum block and heads available for the 460 engine family. Does anyone know specifics on weight, price, and where I go to purchase if I decide to go on that direction? Who makes these pieces? Are there drawbacks to the all aluminum setup other than cost? What is the typical weight of a completed all aluminum 460, and how does that compare to an FE and a 351C, which is what's in my car now? Any and all info is appreciated. Thanks
Doug

[Tony Aprile]

Doug
Ford sells the 460 SCJ aluminum heads as they come on the crate engines...I can't answer your question about the aluminum block, but you might want to visit http://460ford.com/
Its a 429/460 website and someone there should have your answer.

Tony

[Tim Brewer]

I know that at one time an aluminum 429 block was offered from the Ford racing catalog, part # M-6010-A96. You can stroke it to what ever size you want, they say it goes to 815 ci, and they also say it is for racing only? A phone # given is (704) 892-8688.

[cobrashoch]

SVT short deck alloy blocks weigh as much if not more than iron early blocks, due to extra webbing on the cam towers, thicker main webbing, and in other areas. However, they can be bored to 4.6 bores safely for a big bore street engine. Believe it or not the lightweight factory block 385 out there is the late truck FI iron block, but they do not take kindly to the bore bar. I'm presantly workling on one of those .020 over guys, and with dubeous use of a grinder, deck cuts and other machining cuts, I've got a late bare block down to 168 lbs with stock caps. Dependent on the many build weight factors out there I assume a stroker long block could be built at around 450 lbs with this block, if that is the way you want such a engine built.

[Tom Wells]

Doug,

Here's one source for blocks and info: http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com...mbigblocks.php

There's another, Carrol Carter in Manassas Park VA. I tried to find his web site which has (had?) a lot of good parts and info but its location eludes me. His number is 703-368-7878.

Aha! Found it: http://www.candcmotorsports.com/

Enjoy,

Tom

[767Jockey]

Thanks, guys.

[Barry_R]

Aluminum heads are available from Blue Thunder, TFS, Edelbrock, Ford, and Kaase....lots of choices these days.

[Manowar]

You can have a 460, aluminum block, CHI head, Windsor if you like...
http://www.theengineshop.com/prods_p...rateEngine.htm

[John Owen]

Some weight info for my blocks, weighed same day on same scale

Ford iron block from crate 521, including 2 bolt main caps

223 #

RDI 566 aluminum block with 4 bolt steel main caps

152 #

Hope the numbers are useful

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by Manowar

You can have a 460, aluminum block, CHI head, Windsor if you like...
http://www.theengineshop.com/prods_p...rateEngine.htm

Thanks, I'd love to work with you guys as I'm right here on Long Island, but Windsors just don't do it for me. No offense to the W guys, but they're just not for me.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by John Owen

Some weight info for my blocks, weighed same day on same scale

Ford iron block from crate 521, including 2 bolt main caps

223 #

RDI 566 aluminum block with 4 bolt steel main caps

152 #

Hope the numbers are useful

Wow - only a 71 pound difference. I thought it would be significantly more than that. I guess for the expense, 71 pounds on a street car probably isn't worth it. Thanks for the great info. Does anyone know the difference in weight between a 351C with aluminum heads and a 460 with iron block and aluminum heads?

[Manowar]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Thanks, I'd love to work with you guys as I'm right here on Long Island, but Windsors just don't do it for me. No offense to the W guys, but they're just not for me.

No offense taken and glad you're narrowing-down your preferences.
Thanks for the kind words.

[RACER X #99]

Doug,
I think you are making a mistake discounting the Windsor block. You may prefer the Cleveland style heads over the Windsors, that's understandable but to go with a Cleveland block is a big mistake. One of the reasons they were discontinued was because of the poor oiling system in racing applications. The Windsor racing blocks from Ford, Man O War and Dart are priority oiling systems that are the best of any Ford engine.

What Man O War is offering you is the best of both worlds, the best block and a set of great breathing CHI heads. This is just the engine that the Fords should be running in Nascar.

RD

[767Jockey]

I agree 100%. What concerns me is the limited availability of intakes for this combo. I have no affinity for Cleveland blocks, but to me a top of the line Cleveland head is a no brainer over the same level Windsor head. ( I understand many "W" fans will disagree, but to me canted always wins over straight, everything else being equal. Your opinion may vary.) Where does this combo leave me as far as intakes? I'm not willing to cut the hood and mess up the looks on the Cobra. I'm also guessing I have to have custom headers built? Right now I'm torn between a stroker Cleveland, a stroked "Clevor" with a W block, and I'm just sort of toying with the 460 idea, although I'd have to say that's pretty unlikely. I have lots of time as I'm less than halfway through redoing the car itself. My goal is to have it done for next summer, so I have lots of time but I want to get the plan down firm soon, so I can target the necessary budget. The Man O' War Cleveland they build is great, but the intake and Dominator carb is just way over the top for me, and there's NO way it will fit under the Cobra hood. I don't believe they'd be willing to change it. I called and asked when they first introduced it, and they just weren't interested at the time in making changes They're a real successful company, and I can't say I blame them for their reluctance. I'm sure they sell plenty as is. Anyway, that's sort of the direction I'm meandering in. I'm still walking in a sine wave, but the cycles are getting smaller!

Originally Posted by RACER X #99

Doug,
I think you are making a mistake discounting the Windsor block. You may prefer the Cleveland style heads over the Windsors, that's understandable but to go with a Cleveland block is a big mistake. One of the reasons they were discontinued was because of the poor oiling system in racing applications. The Windsor racing blocks from Ford, Man O War and Dart are priority oiling systems that are the best of any Ford engine.

What Man O War is offering you is the best of both worlds, the best block and a set of great breathing CHI heads. This is just the engine that the Fords should be running in Nascar.

RD

[767Jockey]

I guess I can ask right here - ManO'War, are you guys still unable to switch the intake and carb from your Clevor engine? If anything is available that'll fit under a Cobra hood, what is it? What kind of power will it make with the change, assuming a change may be available? Thanks.

[Manowar]

Jock,
Rather than answer right now, I need to make some calls and do little research to give you a full picture of the combinations.
Will post here little later in the day.

[Manowar]

Jock

"I called and asked when they first introduced it, and they just weren't interested at the time in making changes They're a real successful company, and I can't say I blame them for their reluctance."

To start at the end of your post: That was true at the time you previously called but my jumping up and down changed that policy. Now, through our new "custom" program, manifolds (as well as carbs, distributors and cams) can be changed to prescribed parts which we alternate. Reason is, Cobra guys have been buying our 427 Hardcores and 460 Limited Editions (Non-Clevors) for Cobras (both 4500's) and now they can substitute Victor JR's, Dual Planes or Air Gaps and 870 4150's which fit Cobras fine. The 460's have consistantly been making 30 +HP more than their 600 rating so the power loss from the swap still makes them near to the "number". Our 495HP World Class series is becoming popular with Cobra guys too-no fit problems in several SPF's we've seen.
For the record, here are some dimensions which I hope will help Cobra guys:
Measured from end rails to carb pads:
Vic Jr.-5.75 Tall
Super Vic- 6.25
Edel. Adapter for 4500- 2.0
World Man O'War (Windsor) and CHI(Cleveland) 7.5
4500 -3.5 to A/C base
4150-3.25 to A/C base
This is all for 9.5 deck blocks.
If memory serves a friends ERA FIA w/ 9.5 deck needed .125 cut from his Super Vic for 4150 to clear comfortably.
Called Kaase this AM since Jon helped John develop and test the CHI head design. Kaas thought possibly Edelbrock made a "Torquer" for the CHI head at that time but a check of the Ede site revealed that they make one for OE Cleveland and Boss heads but not the CHI's.
E-mailed John at CHI to ask if his 225 dual plane (9.5) would work on the 218 3v which is in our build, and what it's dimensions are. Failing that I asked what if any lower manifold would work with our combination. Wacky Australia is 14 hours ahead so don't know when he'll reply. You can probably fly your 767 to Melbourne and get a faster answer.
Our Purchasing guy suggested we could build our 9.2 for you with CHI heads but would need custom pistons (which we get from Manley) and we need to check 4.0 stroke in 9.2 to build it to 427.
Anyway, if I could fit our Clevor in my ERA, (without pro stock scoop) I'd yank my Side Oiler and slide in a 420LB aluminum Clevor. Forget our ratings, 640 is no problem. Plus it looks and sounds like a B**** in person.
If anyone here cares to see our place, please PM me and I'd be glad to show you the shop and dynos.
I hope some of this makes sense or is a help.

[barabar]

The latest aluminum heads for BB Ford from Trick Flo are the best as of now. Make sure they are the new ones.
Don't cut that 460 SB from World short, all aluminum putting out 600hp. Around $ 12,000.00.

[Barry_R]

Whenever you're ready to yank and toss that sideoiler let me know. I think I can "fix" it...

You can always tell which Cobras at a show are the small blocks...they have the hood shut