Choosing a Head

[Luposlipophobia]

Before I get too into my post, I am fairly new to engine building and I have always wanted to do a scratch build so please bare with me if I sound like I don't know what I am talking about because I probably don't hahaha.

[Background on the project: I intend for this to be a streetable engine but I would also like for it to run with (and on occasion beat) the big boys on the strip. In other words, I am going for the most performance possible on pump gas.]

Anyway, I chose the Ford Racing 460 Super Cobra Jet block as my starting point for this build. However, I am somewhat confused as to which heads I want. Ford Racing in particular offers a few heads that caught my eye. They are the High Port Head, High Port NASCAR, GT-40 Turbo Swirl, Z Head, and the Super Cobra Jet heads. However, I am not quite sure if 1) Which ones will actually fit the block and 2) What the differences between them are. If you could help me out by answering these two questions I would highly appreciate it. Thank you!

[Tim Brewer]

The only head that is for your engine is the Suoer Cobra Jet head. The four other heads are for small blocks.

[xlr8or]

Go for cubic inches and heads that breathe. You can get some ported heads and stroker kit from someone like Kieth Craft and push it up to 514 Cubes with ported heads that will make an easy 550-600 HP.

[blykins]

The only head out of the ones that you mentioned that are for a big block are the SCJ heads, and comparatively speaking, they're nothing special.

Don't waste your money on a new block, just use a regular production block. They have plenty of room for stroker crankshafts and in stock form will hold 700-750hp. There's no need in spending thousands for a block when you can get one for $100.

As for the heads, the best bang for the buck are the Trick Flow Street heads for the 429/460. They flow about 350cfm right out of the box.

If you don't already have a stock rotating assembly (crank and rods) that you can use and you need to spend money on a new setup, just go ahead and spring for a stroker kit. The 4.300" kit is very popular and will net you around 520-530 cubic inches.

Getting 500-600hp out of a 460 is easy as pie, with just some good heads and a cam. When you start increasing stroke and displacement, you're adding the torque to go with it.

Now, you'll have to really quantify how much power you want, because when you say that you want the most power that you can get on pump gas, you're probably looking at 700-750hp.

[Silverback51]

Probably one of, if not the best set of heads you can buy.

http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com...der-heads.html

[Luposlipophobia]

Thanks for the input! It definitely helped. As far as how man ponies I want to cram into the 460, I was hoping for it to be ABLE to make at least 800HP. Granted not on pump gas but seeing as how I will be using one (or more) ECUs I will be able to set up profiles. One thing I was considering was actually a SLIGHTLY shorter stroke to maximize the top end HP. I will be using twin blowers (I actually prefer superchargers over turbos). Here is what I have so far. Any input is appreciated.

Cylinder Heads: Blueprinted Kaase P-51 Big Block Ford Wedge Cylinder Heads
Engine Block: Blueprinted Ford Racing Aluminum 460 Super Cobra Jet Block
Oil Pan: Custom Moroso Aluminum Baffled Dry Sump Oil Pan

Alternator: Anatov Dual Speed Alternator
Starter Motor:
Ignition Coil: Okada Projects Plasma Direct Coil
Spark Plugs:

Fuel Rails:
Fuel Filters: Aeromotive Inline Fuel Filters
Fuel Pump: Aeromotive Atomic Hex Drive Fuel Pump
Fuel Chiller: S-MAX Cool Can
Fuel Injectors:
Fuel Pressure Regulator:

Pistons: Custom CP Pistons Forged Titanium Pistons
Piston Rings:
Connecting Rods: Custom Carillo Forged Titanium Rods
Camshafts: Custom Comp Camps Titanium Roller Cams
Crankshaft: Custom Bryant Racing Billet Crankshaft
Lifters: Crower Roller Lifters
Crank Pulley: Ford Racing Underdrive Pulley
Flywheel: Ford Racing Lightweight Flywheel

Valve Covers:
Valves:
Valve Guides:
Valve Springs:
Push Rods: Custom Comp Cams Billet Rods
Rocker Arms: Ford Racing Roller Rockers
Timing Sprockets:
Harmonic Damper:
Balancer: Innovators West Balancer

Intake: Custom Dual 3" Intake
Air Filters: Weapon R Secret Weapon Filters
Throttle Body:
Intake Manifold: Custom Stainless Steel Tubular Split Manifold
Intake Manifold Gasket: Thermal Shield Gasket

Supercharger: Undetermined Twin Screw Supercharger
VDV Valve:
Wastegate: Synapse Engineering Wastegate
Exhaust Manifold:
Exhaust System: Custom Dual 3" Exhaust
Exhaust Manifold Gasket: Copper Gasket

Oil Filter:
Oil Pump: Ford Racing SVT Mechanical Pump
Oil Radiator: Ford Racing Self Regulating Oil Cooler
Coolant Pump: Weiland Mechanical Pump
Coolant Radiator: PWR Radiator
Water/Methanol Pump:
Water/Methanol Chiller: S-MAX Cool Can
Water/Methanol Injector: Snow Performance Fogger

[blykins]

You're way overkill on everything, including horsepower. 800hp for a street car is just simply too dangerous IMO.

However, if you're set on that, I would invest in the block and the P51 heads, and skip the forced induction. You don't need it.

A longer stroke WILL NOT limit top end horsepower, but increases the horsepower along with the torque along the same curve, all while being able to use a milder camshaft compared to a smaller displacement.

A 4.5" bore with a 4.5" stroke will give you 573ci, and with that displacement, the right cam, and those heads, you'll get your 800hp and then some.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you're planning on something like this, let a professional engine builder do it for you.

When you're listing a set of heads, and you're not sure if they fit a small block or a big block, building a 800hp race engine, may just be out of your realm of experience.

Have you ever driven anything with 800hp? 500hp?

[Luposlipophobia]

Yes, I have driven an '07 M5 on the track a few times and Z06 twice. I was definitely going to let a pro build it for me. Tolerances for something like this are not forgiving enough for me to attempt it myself. The 4.5"x4.5" square is definitely attractive, however, what are the advantages/disadvantages of going forced induction vs larger displacement?

[Silverback51]

I thought the 460 aluminum block was a dry block for racing only. If you have found a wet 460 aluminum block let me know. I will be building a new engine next Winter.

Also, you did not mention a Compression Ratio. If you are going with a boosted engine, I would limit the C/R to 7 or 7.5 to 1 and then run more boost. For the same cylinder pressures, you will get greater HP from the lower C/R setup.

[blykins]

For sane horsepower levels, $4000-5000 blocks are not necessary.

The biggest disadvantage for going forced induction on something like this is that 1. You don't need it for the horsepower levels that you're looking for (it's not a small block) 2. The cost. You're probably going to double, if not triple, your engine budget with two turbos/superchargers.

Getting 800hp out of a P51 headed 557 isn't terribly hard at all.

I still don't know why you have to have 800hp.....that's not streetable. Anything above 600hp in a street car is pretty much a dice throw anyway. You would never be able to take advantage of a wide open throttle situation.

IMO, 700-800 is for drag racing, not street driving.

You could build a 600-625hp 460 for pennies compared to what you're trying to plan.

[barabar]

Trick Flow are the best for the price. SCJ heads are good too, but there is a valve spring issue with solids. I perfer the valve spring on the trick flow. This is out of the box, with no mods. A hyd roller is good to use with either head. Yes you can make 700 hp and still be very street-a-ble on pump gas. 9.5 to1.
BBF let them breathe and they can make phenomenal hp.

[Luposlipophobia]

I think you may be misunderstanding me about the horsepower. I would like for the engine to be ABLE to make 800 plus horsepower, but for street use I would definitely have a ~600HP ECU profile. When I take it to the strip and use race fuel I want that extra power. Also, the forced induction can be tuned for low to mid range torque, no? That is sort of my intention and for my purposes can probably be achieved with a single twin screw 'charger (parts edited).

I talked with a prospective engine builder today and he suggested that with my budget and the 460 block I should be able to get a little over 1000 HP. I had not considered this... mythical number before but I have worked hard for this and if I can build an engine with 1000 HP, why the hell not? So, my new challenge is building an engine that will be comfortable enough at 600 HP on pump gas (that is, of course, relative to the application so my standards are quite lax) for street use but aggressive enough to make 1000 HP on race fuel at the track. Keeping in mind that I am not really worried about money (budget is around $20k-$22k), I do want forced induction, and I would like to avoid increasing the bore size if possible, hit me with some suggestions.

Edit:
Thinking that a cam custom ground to 288-289 degrees would be the best (not completely raced out) way to go?

[Tom Wells]

Yo Lupe,

Go here: http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthr...ght=byron+dyno

Do a few more searches there and see what you can do with the 460 and some air pressure. Then read Byron's on-track description of what it's like to drive a car with such an engine. Might just light your fire

Tom

[dave from mesa]

this sucks!!!!
When I saw head I thought............
damn!!!!

[blykins]

Instead of getting on here and asking opinions, I would pick a very savvy engine builder and start picking his brain.

[Silverback51]

I'm still waiting to hear where the source is for a wet aluminum 460 block.

[cobrahd557]

Build it for dependability if you don't want to work on it. I built just about every size BBf you can think of I have 5 in my garage right now, from 460 to 600ci don't bore it more than 30 over (keep cylinder thick) and a stroke of 4.150 is a 502 or not more than 4.300is a 514ci this is a great platform for a reliable street engine. Use a good heads Ford SCJ, TrickFlow, or Edelbrock cam in the 230to245 duration@.050 and 600 lift. This is built for 2000 6500 rpms EX. for street driving about 550 to
600 hp This is the engine i'm putting in my cobra tomorrow. and I have the pick of the lot Just my thought.

[mdross1]

Reading this thread certainly understand your need for speed we all have it. We all also find our sweet spot the same way you are approaching yours. My 460 powered Cobra started life in the 450 hp range now in the 550 hp range very happy occasionally run it with slicks is a ball. Thinking very seriously about stepping it up to 600+ in the near future. Have fun with this build and keep us informed.

[Dwight]

16 minute You Tube; How to build a Ford motor

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...ld+part+1&sm=1

[PLDRIVE]

I would like to know what U intend to do to the chassis to support 800 to 1000 hp & 700+TQ?