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Old 04-14-2006, 09:39 AM
What'saCobra? What'saCobra? is offline
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Talking SAAC do not consider MKIV's as Cobras

?"SAAC CONCOURS CAR SHOW GUIDELINES"
"DISQUALIFICATION Replicas, or any cars which are intentionally or unintentionally misrepresented (e.g., a replica Cobra, Shelbyized Mustang, etc.) will be disqualified from concours evaluation. Significantly modified cars should enter the popular vote car show."

eg: MKIV's are NOT welcome in the concours. They are relegated to the replica crowd. While it is true that they are not Shelby American cars, neither are GT40's, which are most profusely welcome. The argument given is that Shelby had a great influence on GT40 racing success (which is absolutely true, but nearly none on the design), so they should be included. But, this argument is ignored regarding inclusion of the MKIV, particularly when they insist (as CS certainly insists every event in the past) that CS had huge influence on anything and everything AC did to make nearly all of the original Cobras; but that doesn't make the MKIV welcome as a 'real' Cobra, despite the fact that FORD allowed the use of the name by AC and despite the fact that the car is nearly identical in every way (frequently surpassing significantly the build quality of the original all-AC-built cars.)

Note that the concours rules allow paint runs and orange peel on the original and unrestored painted cars. In fact, they are EXPECTED.
Viz:
"DIVISION 1. Stock/Original cars. ?- The original/restored car is expected to be a higher quality of workmanship than the original/unrestored car. It may, however, have paint runs or orange peel or may show "original-type" overspray on the under-carriage, etc. "Natural-finish" parts should not be **painted the natural color. ?- An original/unrestored car should rate higher on authenticity but lower on workmanship. Paint runs on engine compartment walls, undercarriage overspray, and exterior orange peel are expected."

The gentle reader might try to find such shoddy workmanship on any MKIV with its original paint. Particularly find paint runs or exterior orange peel. Anywhere. No way.

"As far as CSX4000 and CSX7000 cars are concerned, SAAC accepts these cars as genuine Shelby American Cobras (as opposed to "original" Shelby American Cobras). The definition we use to identify an original Cobra is one which was, 1) built between 1961 and 1968, 2) at the direction of and under contract from Carroll Shelby/Shelby American Inc., and 3) sold by Shelby American or one of its franchised dealers. The only difference between original Cobras and CSX4000 and CSX7000 cars is the time frame in which they were built (1). However, all three factors separate Shelby’s current cars from all the rest of the Cobra replicas, AC MK IVs, COB/COX continuation cars, etc. So, to our way of thinking, the current crop of Cobras are genuine but are not original."

So, even todays plastic Shelby's are genuine Cobras, but "Shelby designed" and "FORD designed" coil-springed AC MKIV's are not genuine Cobras.

" The AC MKIV is an exciting car in it's own right and is arguably as close to being a Cobra as is possible without the Shelby American pedigree."

"...as close as possible to being a Cobra..."

Isn't this like being a little pregnant? Well, thank you, Nedley, for allowing us at least to be AC's. And the MKIV's are called Cobras, they admit, before they are shipped into the USA for sale. This legalism is certainly not very sensible or logical or even reasonable for a club demarkation... It is a marketing/licensing gimmick, to avoid torquing CS at the time, who was arguing for the legal rights to all things Cobra (particularly the shape, now recently lost), except for the FORD owned moniker.

This head-in-the-sand perspective of the SAAC isn't more obvious than the final abandonment of the various Dodge products which were also 'influenced' by CS (Charger, Omni GLH, Daytona Z, Lancer, Shadow, Spirit, GLHS, CSX Shadow, CSX-T Shadow, Dakota, CSX-VNT, etc.) Because the Dodges were "Shelby" stuff, they were often shown next to real Genuine Original 427's as "Shelby's." Nothing could be more asinine.

We can guess why they were first included, then excluded and it ain't pretty.

The recent CS CanAm race cars (another misnomer at best) are quite good products and are certainly more deserving of the Shelby aura. But now, the little Dodge hot econoboxes have been dismissed by SAAC. For what reason? Lack of interest? Lack of space? Probably from lack of image, prestige, price and potential market gain. i don't disagree with this decision in the least.

Shelby had significant influence on the Dodge Viper also and i don't see that in attendance. Maybe CS wouldn't like it... or maybe they are just a little too fast? Or maybe their recent Le Mans wins are a little too close to home? You're guess is as good as mine, but i would bet on the CS rejection. If they want him in attendance, Vipers are out of here.

Carroll also 'built' the Series 1, but i don't see that in attendance. Ever ask why?

So, MKIV's are treated like pariahs, at least junior league... not welcome at Concours, placed with the replicas and not considered "Shelby's" (correctly so), 'original Cobras' (also fairly correct, although somewhat arguable regarding 'continuation' status) or 'real' Cobras (not correctly so, IMHO.) But, GT40's are most welcome to the inner sanctum sanctorum. Why? Certainly not because of the many dues paying members owning GT40's. Rather (like Dan), because of prestigious image, not many variations, price, and, did i forget, price?

But, i think MKIV's should be allowed in the concours as real Cobras. No qualifications whatsoever. Along with any and all of the AC continuation cars up to the last few SC clones built in the 90's, including the Wagner MKIII's.

Now, it is worth mentioning that not all of the SAAC senior members completely agree with the current position of MKIV's not being 'real' Cobras. Everyone here knows they are not Shelby Cobras, of course. But, those that have respect for the AC continuations (pre-Mr. Lu) are few and far between and not in sufficient authority and quantify to reverse the current position, as yet.

It might wait until, like many things, CS is no longer sucking air. And Mr. Lu gets run over by a truck and JP takes his marbles. And the membership has a revolution.

i have never been a member, particularly for this and other much earlier reasons. So, i can't 'vote' on this issue within SAAC. (They admit they didn't know squat about Cobras when they first started and they studiously ignored any racer types of the time. They were mostly Mustang pilots.)

We attend various SAAC events from time to time, but usually don't bother to bring a car; as the one time i did, i went home hot under the collar from the rather strong evidence of ignorance that was visibly displayed. It is unfortunate that personalities and authorities often spoil unnecessarily what could be more fun and inclusive. They readily admit any vehicles to the race events, for the cash infusion. So, attendance at an event is something of a mixed bag for a serious replica/MKIV owner... But, plenty of "real" Cobra owners/SAAC members are great fun, knowledgeable and not at all pretentious, contrary to any rumors. Mere membership in the SAAC certainly does not imply agreement with all of the SAAC policies.

Fortunately for SAAC, the greater membership of the various local Cobra groups are not exactly aware of the inner machinations of a few of the SAAC 'leadership' from time to time. They were at their best when they were adversaries to CS, not subservient.

But, SAAC has provided a fine service to the marque and the marketplace. i do buy their publications from time to time and they are very valued and dog-eared on my favored shelf. And there are some individuals in and near the leadership that i think are top notch personalities and backgrounds, so i paint with a somewhat narrow brush here.

As a non-member, it's not up to me. Just my view about the merits of the Shelby 'completely influenced' continuation Cobras from AC. Spoken from both sides of the mouth, it seems to me. "Hell, i designed all those Cobas at AC..." And, they didn't change.

PS: OldPhart, my MKIV Lightweight doesn't have side markers either. A few were assembled without markers; don't know how many, but not many. Like everything Cobra, it all depends. Does your car have the other MKIV 'safety' features?
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Last edited by What'saCobra?; 04-14-2006 at 09:46 AM..