[Excaliber]

Well we've tried that for 8 years, hasn't worked yet. How about another decade of futility with no end in sight?

...we need a better game plan. Step 1, what the hell ARE the goals there? Iraq is a good example. While there is no promise "we won" anything there, we have given the Iraq's a chance to build a new life, govern themselves. If THEY pull it off THEN it will be job well done.

The same should apply to the Afghan's. It is THEY who ultimately will decide the long term stability of that country and increase our security here. The Taliban will forever keep coming, like in Vietnam, the body count won't mean squat, you simply cannot kill enough of them. Bin Laden, there are plenty moreto take his place, his capture would be little more than a political hat feather.