B2 Motorsports - Cliff Rosson All-Aluminum 331 SBF Build

[blykins]

I don't need to get in any more trouble with my wife than I already am.

[ERA2076]

Chas - I will weigh and post when it gets home. The 351 was 525 - if we get 100, I will be very happy.

I got a 100 out of the trans, bh, and clutch assembly.

The ERA rear and 5 lug wheel setup should yield another 100.

If we get a 100 out of the engine I would be down around 2150.

It could really work.

chr

[Racer_X]

Originally Posted by ERA2076

In the house -

69lb on the scale

I hope the internals on that T5 aren't stock. Even a T5Z won't hold up long to the power that 331 is going to make. Ask me how I know. I'm pushing 425 out of mine and I've gone thru several of them, thankfully I know how to rebuild them too. Stepped it up to a TKO series and no more breakage.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by Racer_X

I hope the internals on that T5 aren't stock. Even a T5Z won't hold up long to the power that 331 is going to make. Ask me how I know. I'm pushing 425 out of mine and I've gone thru several of them, thankfully I know how to rebuild them too. Stepped it up to a TKO series and no more breakage.

Brent does A1# transmissions also, able to handle whatever you want to throw at it, for a price of course, but your getting the best from the best...

[ERA2076]

Originally Posted by Racer_X

I hope the internals on that T5 aren't stock.

They are not - breaking it is still a very real possibility.

[blykins]

[ERA2076]

I just love the "Made In USA" plaque - worth the price of admission right there.

[blykins]

Indeed.

Crank was made in Ohio...

Rods were made in Michigan...

Block was made in Michigan...

Heads, stud girdle were made in Ohio...

Intake and water pump was made in Cali...

Oil pan was made in Cali...

Carb was made in Kentucky...

[blykins]

How about 432 hp @ 6200 and 405 lb-ft @ 5200? Not bad for a cam that's meant for a Weber setup....

[ERA2076]

After hearing it, I'm not sure if I should be scared for the gear box or my life.

Just beautiful Brent - we should have spun it a little faster, but that is really cool. I cannot wait to try it.

If we come at, or below, 400lb we will have hit all the goals.

Very Nice

Thank You

cliff

[blykins]

Yeah, it really needs a solid cam. Hydraulics just aren't the best choice for higher rpms. You can tell that we were starting to lose some lifter function towards the end of the pull.

When you master the car with this cam, maybe we can do a cam swap later on. The valve springs are enough to support a mild solid roller and everything else will support it.

For a lower compression engine with an intake right out of the box, I'm really impressed with it. I left the intake on the small side so that it would help with velocity on the smaller engine. The throttle response should be crisp and the torque curve is broad enough that it should really help you on exit.

[ERA Chas]

Brent,
Given a more aggressive spring change, would retarding the cam a bit (to increase the top) compromise the torque curve? Would the juice lifters be the limiting factor?
My though being to make it pull harder on top if he keeps it buzzed up. The car will certainly be light enough.

[ERA2076]

Can I shift as high as 6600? This would have me entering 4th at 4950 from 3rd.


x-chr

[ERA2076]

So Brent took a look at the top before he crated for shipping and was not happy. I think 66 is not in the cards.

We will install a solid which it deserves. I'll probably cuss it in the end, but will get to try it at least once.

This project is looking better all the time. I just hope my 03 survives the ordeal.

chr

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by ERA2076

So Brent took a look at the top before he crated for shipping and was not happy. I think 66 is not in the cards.

Well my thought was to shift the power to the top (post #92), not increase it like a solid will. But I'm good with a big-assed cam.
I hope he finds time to discuss it.

[blykins]

It was already on a 108 ICL.

This build was a little difficult in the fact that we're not really running the intake/carbs that Cliff will run in the end. So, I'm aiming for a camshaft that works perfectly with Webers. Webers want stack velocity, or else they get into reversion. Advancing the cam timing helps with that.

However, this situation was clearly a situation where there will be sustained high rpm use....which is not a good scenario for a hydraulic cam.

On the dyno, you can really hear things that you wouldn't hear in the car, and at 6300 rpm, we could start to hear the lifters giving up. These were Morel short travel lifters, with .010" preload after the engine warmed up. The cam lobes were not overly aggressive, so the intent was not to toss the valves. I used a thicker viscosity oil to keep the lifters juiced. The Dart aluminum block that we used has a lifter feed right off the mains to the front of the lifter passages as well, which helps to keep oil there instead of starving that area of the block.

I had a very adequate amount of spring pressure....trust me.

At the beginning of this build, Cliff's intention was to have a nice street car that he could get on the track every now and again. Towards the end of the build, Cliff changed his mind so that this car will be a dedicated track car. He's been road racing his Cobra Mustang and truly has the bug...

He also has the bug to spin the engine up a little higher, and with a 6200 rpm peak on the hydraulic roller, he would have to shift a little higher, which could keep the engine in a spot where it could be in a continued loss of valvetrain control.

I'm not going with a *huge* cam, as Cliff isn't bent on making earth-shattering horsepower. There will probably be a little bit of an increase, but the focus here is to make the engine rock-stable at the rpms that he needs, along with increasing the peak hp rpm a little.

I did make the decision, for Cliff's sake, to go with a flat tappet cam. Even the most expensive solid roller lifters require time-specific inspections, and with a 302, pulling roller lifters requires pulling the heads. Having to pull the intake, undo the headers, plus pull the heads in a Cobra for an inspection doesn't sound like much fun.

Going with a nitrided Bullet solid flat tappet, plus a set of Crower EDM lifters.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by blykins

Going with a nitrided Bullet solid flat tappet, plus a set of Crower EDM lifters.

So-you found a use for Patrick's gift cam after all??
That's a well thought-out solution in face of changing design plan..

[blykins]

I haven't pulled the trigger yet....I decided to let Cliff make the decision.

[blykins]

Solid roller on the way.....

This is good data for an engine builder, stuff that I don't get to do very often: test a setup, then try a different cam, etc. out on the dyno. Good data.

[ERA2076]

Yea this is of interest. I hope you kept the same profile and timing on the cam -


chr