Carroll Shelby Engine Company

[Tony Ripepi]

All Good Thoughts,

The day Shelby signed the dash on my Daytona was an event called the " Art of Speed" at a gallery in Marin. At the same event were Phil Hill and Dan Guerny, I had them sign a pic and my Daytona limited edition book, Shelby also signed a pic with his deceased wife Rita and Jim Hall in the background from way back in the day. The pic with Jim Hall is on the table and the hat is from the Art of Speed event. The Danny Day art work in the backgroud is hanging in my office with signatures from all three.



With Phil Hill gone my comment of "The Fullness of Time" has some additional meaning.

Tony R.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Tony Ripepi

The day Shelby signed the dash on my Daytona was an event called the "Art of Speed" at a gallery in Marin. At the same event were Phil Hill and Dan Guerny, I had them sign a pic and my Daytona limited edition book.

Now THAT I'm envious of.

All I've done lately is exchange email with David Crosby.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Limited production cars seem to be valued by collectors. i.e. classic Ferraris, Cobras, Muscle cars of various varieties.

Don't get me wrong, I REALLY love the Ford GT and the CSX 4000's and now 6000's, but in the collector car world, 4,000 GT's (though Ford has stopped making them) and the continuation CSX Cobra's are NOT truly limited production cars. Though by definition, the Ford GT having stopped production is NOW limited.

Now, having 1 of 11 (or whatever) 1971 Plymouth Hemi Cuda Convertibles IS limited production.

[Excaliber]

If your going to have Shelby build your motor then price is not a problem. So go ahead and buy that Mexican block or a new after market block because that cost is a tiny fraction of the total cost once Shelby get's your wallet, er, I mean block.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Gunner

Now THAT I'm envious of.

All I've done lately is exchange email with David Crosby.

Tell David "Hi" from Lyons (Planet Bluegrass).

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

If your going to have Shelby build your motor then price is not a problem. So go ahead and buy that Mexican block or a new after market block because that cost is a tiny fraction of the total cost once Shelby get's your wallet, er, I mean block.

Probably won't even let you have a solid, flat tappet cam anyway.

[Allan A]

Just buy a CSX car and be happy. Buy the others and also be happy but be ready to take it in the rear when you sell.

Cheers,

Allan

[Excaliber]

Thats a valid point Allan, about the car, not necessarily the motor, buttttt....

Re-sale value lost vs higher cost of a CSX, depending on options and variables it could be a horse race between which represents the better value. In a reasonable future time frame, not the "fullness of time". Say you buy and keep a few years then sell, sort of thing. Best value for the dollar? Tough call...

As to a genuine Shelby motor adding value to the car, yeah, for some potential buyers. I'm not convinced that alone would add enough value to justify the extra expense based SOLELY on a return of investment strategy. NO QUESTION in general the Shelby name "add's value" to most anything. Personally I'd rather spend MY money, for a motor, with someone like George Anderson of Gessford machine. Perhaps KC, I just don't have a "trust level" high enough for a Shelby built engine. That could change in time and with enough proven motors around.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Allan A

Just buy a CSX car and be happy. Buy the others and also be happy but be ready to take it in the rear when you sell.

And don't forget to ask for the Bose audio option!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Allan A

Just buy a CSX car and be happy. Buy the others and also be happy but be ready to take it in the rear when you sell.

Cheers,

Allan

You take it in the rear with a CSX too. Puh-leeze. You can buy a used fiberglass CSX for about $75,000. I had an opportunity with two CSX's at around that price range. The owners were both going to take it in the rear as you say. What propaganda.

[Gunner]

Forget it, Rod. These guys have to justify spending 50% more on their cars in order to sleep at night. Don't be cruel.

[RodKnock]

Gunner, I'm willing to bet that you get better resale with an ERA versus a CSX, in terms of fiberglass cars. A CSX will have higher resale value, but because you spend more to get the roller.

[PANAVIA]

You know- Above all debates-- it is a great time to be a ford freak.

I am glad to finally feel vindicated as a Ford / Shelby guy in 2009.

I can get any cobra I want. (CSX 1000,4000,6000,7,8,9000,SPF,Kirkham)
I can get any ford engine I want. FE,Windsor,DOHC,)
I can get any transmission I want.(4,5,6 speeds)

I can get a NEW Shelby mustang with a Factory SUPERCHARGER. (GT500)

They make special editions of mustangs celebrating certain Steve McQueen movies ( not even Porsche is cool enough to do that)

Shelby has finally patched things up and become a fan-centric organization, reaching out and actively working with HiTech, Superformance, Retired AC guys, Kirkham, Roush, Etc. --

And other things that make me happy - FORD took no federal bailouts.

So as I think back to 1987 when I first paid my first Shelby Club Dues;

The only replicas available varied wildly.

The early GT350 Mustangs were trading hands at 16K. I passed up a grabber blue boss302 at 12K....good FE parts were really hard to find and terribly expensive.

I remember looking at an original 289 that was priced at -- about 65K -- I wish I remembered the CSX number (we didnt get as wrapped up in CSX numbers in 1986-87. )
Basically it was whether it was a 289 or a 427. -- in this case it was a Red with Black interior 289 with wire wheels.

I convinced the salesman (exotic consignment lot) that I was of means and could be trusted with such a car for a few mins. I was in #3 condition, ran , everything worked pretty well, brakes pulled to the right quite a bit and looked like someone gave it a recent kragens tune-up (orange plug wires)

We worked out a time-line for a test drive - and I left my friend Eric as collateral .

Took off and I can remember that exact drive to this day- I had driven other small sports cars before , jaguars, MG's triumphs, fiats, porsches, 240z's with mikunis' --but nothing with this power-weight ratio. I an remember the whole car moving and flexing but what a blast!

after that I was hooked on 289s and Cobras , this time in 1:1 scale. Since I dint have 65K, the trek continued.

Then sometime later, -I saw a antique white 1985 AC MkIV at a dealership in los gatos -the old log gatos ferrari- it had the current 1985 Mustang GT 5.0L with a T5. -- that was a neat car.

1965 ferrari coolness with FORD power. couldnt afford that either.

Then fast forward to 2007 in Monterey . The RM auction, buried in lot 277 was a BRG AC MKIV. -- and it was going nowhere 45K...$46K....

I looked at the catalog and was amazed, but then it hit me . ...bottom line of the description. -- car does not meet California emissions- so no California buyers permitted. it sold at $59K plus comms. (66K)

http://www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails...O07&CarID=r163

I used that car as a template for the idea that became SPF 2734.

What is cool is building or helping others build the dream, that dream becomes a reality, and turns out to be cooler and neater than I ever could have imagined when I was a kid.

--Steve

[REAL 1]

I'll repeat what I said for the "comphresion" challenged.

As to my choice of "rolling stock", I made my choice on the following criteria in decending order of importance.

1. I purchased what gave me more personal enjoyment above other choices available in the market place.

2. I purchased what I thought would be more attractive to buyers when the time came to sell.

3. Possibility present of collector car status in the future.

As to collectibles, even the true collectible today, including original Cobras have gone done in value. Yes, CSX Continuations have gone down too with the market but so has everything else in the auto world. Everything.

While you can likely purchase a nice glass CSX Continuation Cobra for $75K all that means is that replica Cobras like ERAs, SPFs and the entire rest of the field of replica Cobras can be bought at half the cost of the Cobra or less.

While the initial cost of a Shelby Cobra is more compared to replicas of Cobras and while both cars will depreciate in the near term especially while their manuafactures are still making new ones available only the Shelby provides a legitimate chance of appreciating in the future and attaining collector car status to any degree for many many reasons. Like it or not.

So my thought was simple in buying a Shelby Cobra. If you can afford it why not buy and enjoy a Cobra instead of replica of one and at the same time own something that may attain collector car status in the future instead of owning something that has absolutely no chance in hell of ever appreciating.

While there will always be guys here wandering around saying "the only real cobras were in the 60's" the fact remains SAI is making Cobras again boys. Carroll Shelby says they're real Cobras, Federal Decisions have decreed the only cars that can be legitmately called "Cobras" by their manufacturer and wear the famous "Cobra" logo is a Shelby and finally SAAC which is aside from Shelby the world authority on Cobras says Continuation Cobrs are real Cobras only difference between them and the originals is the time period they were constructed. Thats good enough for me and many, many others.

Finally, for our British friends, and don't get me wrong I love the Brits, however, if not for Shelby I doubt we would all be here discussing the AC Ace. No Shelby, no Cobra.

As to collectibilty heres hows I sees it since my "rolling stock" was brought up.

Ford GT. Not yet a "collectible" but damn close. Its a speical car for many reasons. Extremly desireable. If you don't lust after a FGT check your pulse, your likely dead. Only 4000 were built. 15% already destroyed/salvaged. Only about 3000 remain in this country. The rest in Europe and Canada. The attrition rate of these cars is very high as there are many guys with more money then brains that buy these cars and then take them out and go way too fast and destroy them. The FGT is viciously fast car. This phenomenon sadly happens over and over again each year with this car. In the future this car, the survivors at least, have a legitmate shot of attaining real collector status.

Ford GT collectibility forecast. Good.

CSX Continuation Series Cobras. Fact is they are more desirable to most then replicas of Cobras as they are "Cobras" and not replicas thereof. Fact. As to collector status right now..no. They are not collector cars at least not yet. However, should SAI stop producing them or go out of business and especially once Carroll goes to that big race track in the sky then there is a good chance they will attain collector car status. In fact in aluminum variety there are only approximately 180 aluminum Continuation Cobras. Thats less then the original series.

CSX Collectibilty. Fair. However, they will always be worth more then replica Cobras.

Shelby GT500KR. I mention this since I take it this car was included in the "rolling stock" comment. This is a really cool Mustang. Star crossed in a way since it reached the market 6 months too late but before the economy tanked they were selling and trading hands for $120K+. Economy then tanks and the bottom drops out from under these cars plus the 2010 GT500 from Ford matches all the performance of the KR for substantially less.

I purchased mine for not much more then what you'd pay for a 2010 GT500. I felt it was the right price for a really cool muscle car that was produced in even more limited numbers then the Ford GT. They only made 1600 KRs and they were pre-title production cars unlike the Super Snake that is a post title car. Both really cool cars though that each offer something different.

Collectibility of the KR? Will depreciate first before ever appreciating but I think the car has a fair chance of being a collector car after a 10 year horizion.

And yes, I'm perfectly comfortable having spent more for a "Shelby" then a replica of a Shelby and I sleep fine with that thought.

[4pipes]

Is your CSX built from a Kirkham frame and body?

[REAL 1]

Yes..and original CSXs were built from AC frames and bodies.

Hmmm. Very interesting. Yes.

[Excaliber]

If you can afford it why not buy and enjoy a Cobra instead of replica of one...

Statements like that will gain you little or no support from me! While a genuine Shelby modern continuation Cobra is "real", it is only SLIGHTLY removed from "replica" status. A genuine modern Saleen Mustang is STILL a Mustang at the end of the day. The man's NAME add's value. So a Kirkham or HST or SF sourced REPLICA becomes a "Shelby" by the touch of the man himself. But at the end of the day, it's still a Kirkham or HST or SF or whatever sourced car, just like a Saleen Mustang is still a Ford Mustang.

[patrickt]

Ernie, in Evan's defense you really "can't take it with you." And if he has kids, the chances are they're going to sell his cars anyway, maybe at loss, maybe breaking even, but undoubtedly not returning what a good index fund would. Buying what he did makes him happy. Believing what he does makes him happy. Buying something else and having higher money numbers on paper would not make him happy. He did the right thing.

Afterthought -- Even if I had a billion dollars in the bank, if buying a Cobra I would still buy an ERA, and would still spec it out exactly the same way that I did. I would do like Jay Leno, and not buy a real one.

[lloyds1]

Definition of a replica: "A copy that is relatively indistinguishable from the original."

Since the continuation car is not an original, it is a replica. A replica that is sold Shelby American.

[REAL 1]

Ernie: Not looking for support from anyone or friends here. Just saying it like it is.

Lloyds: Yes. thats fine. Play the little dictionary definition game now.


Patrickt: Sure you would. LOL.