Shelby vs. Kirkham - Page 3

cobraviper_99 · #41 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 10:49 AM

I'd like to weigh in on this. First of all, which car is "better" is as subjective a choice as there will ever be. All I can do is relate my experiences and the second-hand accounts I've heard from other CSX owners. The entire ordering, building, and after-the-sale experiences I have had in the process of acquiring CSX4252 have been exceptional since Day One. The late Bob Marsh at Shelby was attentive, sincere, and truly invested in working with me on my order. Gary Davis took the time to answer my endless questions as the build began and was always available by phone. The end result of how the build quality and overall appearance of a CSX measures up can be traced back to the dealer and Billy Andrews at HRE is a master craftsman whose work speaks for itself, not only on CSX cars but the outstanding original Cobras he has restored.

I would eagerly invite anyone to compare the quality and craftsmanship of my car to any other, regardless of manufacturer. The number of awards it has won is a testimony to the quality of the CSX Cobra and the skills of the guys at HRE. Jay Bentley has seen my car several times, actually parked his original Cobra beside mine at a show in Newport, RI in September and was quite impressed with it, which I truly appreciate. And the pride that comes with people just freezing in their steps when they see a Shelby Cobra with a CSX serial number--original or continuation--is always great fun. I am very happy that I chose the CSX Cobra and haven't regretted it for a moment.

Hexnut72 · #42 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Looking back in history, there have been several threads comparing the Shelby and the Kirkham. The OP should review them. The two that come quickly to mind are the 'rsimones' thread and the other was by 'alpace.'

Shelby vs a Kirkham (aluminum)

CSX vs. Kirkham

They're both wonderful cars. As I always say, that why they make different flavors of ice cream.

I did not look at the links but both Al and RSimones ended up buying Kirkhams... If that tells you anything.

RodKnock · #43 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hexnut72

I did not look at the links but both Al and RSimones ended up buying Kirkhams... If that tells you anything.

I didn't think about that, but you're obviously right. I, in no way picked them because of that fact. Those were the "Shelby versus Kirkham" threads that I found in the last few years.

patrickt · #44 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I didn't think about that, but you're obvioulsy right. I, in no way picked them because of that fact. Those were the "Shelby versus Kirkham" threads that I found in the last few years.

Are there any threads that went the other way? Meaning that they carefully compared the two and then went with Shelby?

WarrenG · #45 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 12:07 PM

When researching which car to buy, I wrote off the Kirkham because their 289FIA and slabside were more money than I wanted to spend. The quality of the Kirkham cars that I inspected was exceptional.

I wrote off the Shelby for two reasons. One, they also cost considerably more than I wanted to spend. Second, the first two Shelby cars I saw had been poorly assembled and finished by the Las Vegas facility and required considerable time and money to make them right after delivery. Both owners complained that SAI seemed somewhat disinterested in making it right. In one case SAI sent the replacement parts, but the owner had to pay to have the car corrected.

Jamo · #46 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobrabytes

Not trying to be the Kirkham poster child here, but...

After having bought a Kirkham I can only tell you that buying a Cobra from them was something I consider a privilege. Hands down, working with David, Thomas, and company was THE BEST consumer experience I have ever had. The Kirkhams have bent over backwards to make everything perfect, before, during, and after the sale.

No joking, they should interview potential customers to see if they are worthy of the car...

My Kirkham has exceeded my expectations by 1000%

len

I have made that suggestion to Da Boys more than a few times over the years.

Jamo · #47 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobraviper_99

I'd like to weigh in on this. First of all, which car is "better" is as subjective a choice as there will ever be. All I can do is relate my experiences and the second-hand accounts I've heard from other CSX owners. The entire ordering, building, and after-the-sale experiences I have had in the process of acquiring CSX4252 have been exceptional since Day One. The late Bob Marsh at Shelby was attentive, sincere, and truly invested in working with me on my order. Gary Davis took the time to answer my endless questions as the build began and was always available by phone. The end result of how the build quality and overall appearance of a CSX measures up can be traced back to the dealer and Billy Andrews at HRE is a master craftsman whose work speaks for itself, not only on CSX cars but the outstanding original Cobras he has restored.

I would eagerly invite anyone to compare the quality and craftsmanship of my car to any other, regardless of manufacturer. The number of awards it has won is a testimony to the quality of the CSX Cobra and the skills of the guys at HRE. Jay Bentley has seen my car several times, actually parked his original Cobra beside mine at a show in Newport, RI in September and was quite impressed with it, which I truly appreciate. And the pride that comes with people just freezing in their steps when they see a Shelby Cobra with a CSX serial number--original or continuation--is always great fun. I am very happy that I chose the CSX Cobra and haven't regretted it for a moment.

Absolutely, and well said. Bob Marsh was one of my favorite people in this thing, and I found it very difficult to choose the Kirkham simply because of Bob. Heck, the deal he was offering would've made the CSX cheaper.

Absolutely nothing against other Shelby folks, both current and past, and most asspecially the Garys and Amy. Bob came in at an extremely difficult time, handled it well and made it personally happen that Shelby continued to make their products available, in arruminum as well as glass. There are many back stories from that time that modern-era history buffs would faint if they heard them.

I miss that man dearly.

RodKnock · #48 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Are there any threads that went the other way? Meaning that they carefully compared the two and then went with Shelby?

The first criteria was aluminum versus aluminum. There are plenty of threads about fiberglass CSX versus SPF and/or ERA or fiberglass CSX versus Kirkham.

The second criteria was that someone followed through and eventually bought one or the other.

Just a theory, but maybe the people who want and buy a CSX, know exactly what they want and they buy it, without all the questions and banter online.

patrickt · #49 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

The first criteria was aluminum versus aluminum. .

No, that's what I meant. Apples to apples... forget the fiberglass crap. I was trying to remember if anyone (other than Evan) had actually come down as saying that, mechanically, they were either equal or Shelby was ahead. I don't believe that has ever been posted here in a serious thread.

RodKnock · #50 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

No, that's what I meant. Apples to apples... forget the fiberglass crap. I was trying to remember if anyone (other than Evan) had actually come down as saying that, mechanically, they were either equal or Shelby was ahead. I don't believe that has ever been posted here in a serious thread.

Well, obviously there are more than a few who prefer the CSX for sure, including Evan and Allan A, who come quickly to mind. They bought a long time ago, but I can't think of anyone recently posting questions and who had not purchased one, considered both, then bought the CSX. Though my memory is fading.

Has there ever been an unhappy Kirkham owner? We've had several unhappy CSX owners. I remember there was one guy here locally, I think in Scotts Valley, who loved the CSX, but then had all sorts of issues with his front suspension, which he had to sort out locally. Was that 'shebyracer'?

RodKnock · #51 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 01:22 PM

Here's Shelby Racer's CSX thread:

4000 series hub / upright / spidle options

Edit: 2nd Shelby Racer Thread: CSX 4000 series body / frame assymetry

patrickt · #52 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 01:28 PM

Yep, that was it. I pm'd with him off line on that as well. That's the thread I recalled in my post to Allan. I think his response was basically "if you haven't owned one, then you really have no business critiquing them." And I guess there's some merit to that. It's been a long time, but I remember somebody having a real beef with Peter at ERA on here. But it didn't have to do with the quality of the work; the guy never even took delivery of the car -- he cancelled it, as I remember. But I'm very hazy about that. I don't remember anybody really complaining about the Kirkhams, either. I have a vague recollection of Jamo not being happy with a timely delivery of a clutch fork, but that could have been in jest. And I could be completely wrong on that all together.

fonti · #53 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 01:51 PM

Hhmmm... I don't know if I can comment my own question. After a very Cobra-oriented week with dozens of hours on the computer and on the phone I got a little bit of knowledge...but just a very little bit!
I made my mind up that I cannot buy a fiberglass replica. And I also know now, that the Kirkham is the better car. (less weight, better fabrication, better / more modern technology, suspension and eventually better customer support) BUT: in Switzerland a Shelby is a Shelby and that is easier to put on the road. It is just a silly VIN-Tag somewhere on the dashboard and a piece of paper!
And it is oldstyle 427, 4-speed toploader and so on, but it is a Shelby. That is the reason why I am probably buying an aluminum Shelby. And I have to say that my Budget is not existent anymore. I'm talking way too much money but it is just great to even think of owning such a Car.
There are two nice brushed bodys out there, both in CA - man that's gonna be another late night!!

franklin · #54 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 03:05 PM

Having lived here in Utah for some time and visiting both manufacturers. Kirkhams quality of parts being made and used on their cars is much higher quality than what I have seen of the Shelby cars. The quality of the build is also better at the Kirkham shop.

I just don't understand why a Signature is worth so much when quality across the board is less.

Just calling it as I have seen.
JMHO
Todd

RodKnock · #55 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 03:12 PM

I think, as I pointed out several pages ago, the Kirkham quality is consistent, since they build virtually all of them in Utah.

Just my impression, but the CSX experience may vary by dealer across the country. Rokndad has had nothing but positive experiences from the people in Las Vegas. I've never heard anything but great experiences from people who have gone to Billy Andrews at HRE.

Jamo · #56 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 04:33 PM

Paddy, meboyo...my comments on the clutch fork concerned a very minor situation. Attempts to comment on threads and posts by others over many years smacks a bit of Hearst-type sensationalism in the hopes of a fun battle on these boards. If someone's interested (and smart) enough...they can use the search function to reread previous threads instead of asking the same damn questions.

My experience in having KMP184 built in Provo produced a very detailed thread (included how the decision to have a brushed finish and an arruminum hood scoop came to be) back in 2002-3 (I know, a few years before your time) and indicates why I've never looked back nor have I have ever had a problem with anything built in Provo. On another current thread, I indicated that I chose the Kirkham even though I could've purchased a CSX a bit cheaper (total build) during Bob Marsh's tenure. Whether cheaper or not, I chose Kirkham based on factors other than price, as a certain moron who later ran Shelby (and got involved in fake movie cars) found out on these pages after tangling with me. I am a much gentler person now.

Many, many threads before you or your cohort in sh!tstarting (

) came on the scene.

Obviously, as with any of the mfgs, much of it depends on the person buying the car, and, in the case of Shelby...who's putting it together. Kirkhams have no dealers in the U.S....so consistency is the attribute most recognized. Shelbys built in Vegas and by certain dealers are impeccable...others are built by dealers from the lowest levels of hell.

This thread will NOT turn into a battleground nor will it turn into yet another recap of history. Seems like our Swiss friend has figured some things out in any event.

patrickt · #57 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamo

Paddy, meboyo...

Dang, that's what my wife calls me.

WarrenG · #58 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Dang, that's what my wife calls me.

Maybe there is more to Jamo's comment than meets the eye!

patrickt · #59 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Maybe there is more to Jamo's comment than meets the eye!

I'm just glad I don't have to share a cell with him.

RodKnock · #60 (**permalink**) 12-07-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamo

Seems like our Swiss friend has figured some things out in any event.

I'm kinda curious why it would be easier to register a Shelby, rather than a Kirkham, in Switzerland. It sounds like Shelby is a known name and Kirkham is not. I can understand that, since Shelby has been around a lot longer, but you would think that both cars are reasonably similar, in fact the body and frame are the same, so why the extra hassle? Should be the same modifications to both cars. In fact, you may want to ask the Kirkhams, since they may be able to help you with some of those mods needed. They certainly re-engineered their car for Mr. Larry Ellison, though he probably has more money than fonti.

Is this Barry Switzer-land?

(sorry, I was compelled to)