Big block CSX3259 at dealership near SF

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

This street car was shipped in 1966. Shelby started with 427's, went to 428's and the BACK to 427's. I often hear there were more 428's than 427's total, but I'm still not convinced that's true. A best guess using some data is as close as you will ever get to the exact numbers of 427 vs 428 engines.

Worth more as a street car? Tough call, I would not assume that to be the case. Lot's of folks (most) prefer the SC look, might be worth more as an SC depending on the buyer.

Woodz, you really had me going with the "snow flakes". My first thought was, "Uh oh, I don't have a clue what snow flakes are, and it sounds like I should know this??!!??" Ya got me good man!

Ernie,

Per the registry the 428s started with CSX 3206 and ended with CSX 3301. There were a very few in that series that had 427s, but this car originally came with a 428 per the registry.


Ron

[Excaliber]

From the ad:

..stunning and irrefutably genuine 427cid...

Notice that word "genuine" in the ad? Yup, thats a genuine 427 cid engine all right, just like the genuine 427 engine in my ERA. "Original" would have been another choice. Walking a fine there, nice play on words, followed Shelby's lead no doubt.

[Ron61]

There is another car site in Southern Calif. that has a tendency to play on words with regards to some of their cars, and not just Original Cobras.

Ron

[Rick Parker]

May I be so naive to ask what $314,000 gets you in a restoration other than blue sky?

[CobraV8]

The engine had holley dual quads and chrome valve covers. The article from 2000 says the car has the sideoiler engine, but you can't tell it from the pictures (cross bolted mains not visible).

What you can tell for sure is that the car underwent a complete restauration since then.

[Excaliber]

Good question Rick. Assuming the bulk of the parts used in the restoration were not original (but genuine ) the cost of said parts would be a very small percentage of the cost.

I'm thinking the labor was in excess of a $100 an hour and the kind of detail speaks of LOT'S of man hours. So, assuming the parts were a 1/3rd, more likely a 1/4 or less, of the total cost, how many hours of labor at $100 an hour?

What IS the going rate for shops that restore classic cars, Cobra's in particular? I'm thinking a $100 an hour is to low. Perhaps $200 an hour? How about 1\3rd for parts? $100K for "genuine" parts? Hmmm, that's possible, engine could easily go $50K by itself.

[Igofastr]

I still think that they're asking too much, and will add that I think they probably paid too much for the restoration. Depending on what they paid for the car, they could well be underwater.

Remember, this was a street 427, with a 428 motor, with no significant history. Now, it bares little resemblance to it's original form for no reason other than the whims of the owners. In my opinion, in today's market, they're asking too much. Probably six figures too much.

ps..Where's that guy from Florida? How much did he pay at BJ recently?

[Excaliber]

I don't think the engine 427 vs 428 original or not is an issue though. Many of the originals had the 428 out in not time at all and a 427 installed in it's place. As it concerns the "conversion", yeah plenty of street cars went through that at some point in their life (street to SC). Value depreciation because of the conversion? Maybe with a car with some history, but 99% of the street cars had no history anyway. In this case, I doubt it makes much difference.

Asking to much at $700K plus? Hmmm, that's a tough one, if I was selling it I'd start there and entertain offers. How much they got in it doesn't matter when it comes to how much it's worth. It is a very clean clean nice car, could command top dollar on that alone.

I'd say in excess of a 1,000 man hours. Could be easily double that. At $100 an hour 2000 hours is $200,000 in labor. Typical English sports car, trashed, ground up resto takes about a 1,000 hours for an experienced shop. The labor rate for a GREAT Austin Healey mechanic I used on occasion in Honolulu was $125 an hour. I didn't use him often...

[Hexnut72]

Originally Posted by Woodz428

It's sunbursts Bill. I was responding to the pics and noticed the wheels...for some reason snowflakes came through my finger tips...might be the weather,LOL.

Snowflake wheels are from Pontiac TA's:



Cobras had Sunburst wheels (don't be confused by the Radial TA's on the Sunburst wheels, ha!) :

[Igofastr]

I agree with everything you say, except that I don't see the market at $700K for an otherwise run-of-the-mill street car (nicely, but not perfectly finished).

Of course, a seller can ask anything he wants too. It doesn't mean anybody will pay it. Time will tell, I suppose. I'd like to find out what this car really sells for, but that may not be possible, as often the buyer/seller don't really want that information "out there".

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I don't think the engine 427 vs 428 original or not is an issue though. Many of the originals had the 428 out in not time at all and a 427 installed in it's place. As it concerns the "conversion", yeah plenty of street cars went through that at some point in their life (street to SC). Value depreciation because of the conversion? Maybe with a car with some history, but 99% of the street cars had no history anyway. In this case, I doubt it makes much difference.

Asking to much at $700K plus? Hmmm, that's a tough one, if I was selling it I'd start there and entertain offers. How much they got in it doesn't matter when it comes to how much it's worth. It is a very clean clean nice car, could command top dollar on that alone.

I'd say in excess of a 1,000 man hours. Could be easily double that. At $100 an hour 2000 hours is $200,000 in labor. Typical English sports car, trashed, ground up resto takes about a 1,000 hours for an experienced shop. The labor rate for a GREAT Austin Healey mechanic I used on occasion in Honolulu was $125 an hour. I didn't use him often...

[1ntCobra]

The Fantasy Junction website says they are asking $785K. That does seem high. I think CSX3020, which is a competition roadster went for around $1M at auction recently. I doubt a street car would go for almost 80% of the price of a competition car, but what do I know?

Also I think that the polished aluminum panels takes away from the originality, more so than the swapped motor and S/C conversion. Considering that a S/C conversion was done, the tail lights jump out as being wrong. For the over $300K worth of work done, you would think they could have put in the rectangular tail lights and more original looking side pipes.

Originally Posted by Igofastr

I agree with everything you say, except that I don't see the market at $700K for an otherwise run-of-the-mill street car (nicely, but not perfectly finished).

Of course, a seller can ask anything he wants too. It doesn't mean anybody will pay it. Time will tell, I suppose. I'd like to find out what this car really sells for, but that may not be possible, as often the buyer/seller don't really want that information "out there".

[1ntCobra]

For that price it should also have more rivets in the hood.

[Jamo]

Hehehe.......

[Igofastr]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

For that price it should also have more rivets in the hood.

No kidding.

Really, $300K is TOO MUCH for that restoration. Heck, the Kirkhams could have built the danged thing for a third of that. Yah, yah, I know, a restoration can be more difficult than building from scratch in some ways. But seriously, how much of that car is original anyway.

Oh well, wish I had the money for it. I wouldn't buy it, but wish I had the money .

[tmareina]

That looks exactly like the car I ALMOST bought in June of '67 from Shelby. I still kick myself for not buying it.....BUT......at 20 I would probably have died driving it.

[RodKnock]

Considering that a recent 289 sold for $440,000 (?) and a comp car sold for $1MM, $785,000 seems in the ballpark to me. Fantasy Junction isn't known for selling anything cheaply.

I saw this car at Hall Fabrication when my Kirkham was being fitted with its engine and tranny and I thought it looked nearly flawless and those are REAL MAGNESIUM Halibrands.

The ad also says that the $300K+ resto includes "fastidious maintenance."

[4pipes]

Tough Room.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

I think 700k would be about right for this car. The 427/428 issue is a non issue, as they just made it right. The condition prior to restoration probably has no effect on a total body-off resto price (stripping good paint vs. stripping bad paint?). It's a beautiful car and undoubtedly will not depreciate. I wouldn't mind taking it out for a Saturday morning drive.

[Excaliber]

Pretty rare for a dealer to stick to asking price to the point of letting someone walk away. They would drop to $700 pretty quick is my guess and then you start negotiating from there.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Woodz428

that's referred to as "over restored".

Three hundred thousand worth of over-restored. I simply can't imagine how you could spend that much on the restoration of a car that's in basically good condition to start with. Or even one that's a rat-chewed barn find.