Big block CSX3259 at dealership near SF

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 4pipes

Tough Room.

I agree. While it's not exactly to my taste, the work is/was flawless.

[Rick Parker]

I got it..........You get two Kirkhams some brillo pads and a BIG bottle of Maguires Detail spray, thats the $300K resto. And you got some ($$) left to take the wifey on a nice vacation.

[Randy Rosenberg]

IMHO, the effort put into CSX3259 should have to been to restore it to its original roadster configuration as originally delivered to the first owner. I look at this CSX as I would any car modified from the original, and therefore it should be worth less than if it were restored to its original roadster configuration. IMHO, it was restored to look like an S/C which is nearly as fake as my SPF version of an S/C.

I have a feeling that my opinion may be more on the "purest" side, but this is a Cobra, not a 1966 Stringray, and it should have been restored to its pure state, not to a modified state - especially given how much $$$ the current owner was willing to spend to buy AND modify it further AND clean it up.

IMHO, a collector with the resources to purchase this CSX would pass on this opportunity...

"Hey, is that a real S/C?"... no.

YMMV,
Randy...

[Woodz428]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Pretty rare for a dealer to stick to asking price to the point of letting someone walk away. They would drop to $700 pretty quick is my guess and then you start negotiating from there.

You would think...but having worked for some real a$$holes over the years, it doesn't always happen. I can recall more than one case where they didn't budge, even one where the dealer insulted the guy. The one that is the most indicative of the mentality I have seen was a few years ago and the guy had picked up a very low mileage HD, decked out in chrome and a bunch of HD crap. He felt that it was worth X amount and stuck to that. Even when a guy walked in within a week with cash and offered him several thousand less than WHAT he thought it was worth. 6 months later, he sold it for the same as the guy had offered him the first week he had it. Of course all the interest he paid until then negated any profit he may have made, if the greed hadn't run so deep.
I might add that everyone of those guys is out of business...for unsound financial reasons,LOL.

[ERA Chas]

OK so riddle-me-this: Why does Mr. $314K 'restorer'/modifier use 5" worm clamps on both main frame rails and what lines are they holding? Don't see a return line leaving the Weber side. Anybody know?

I would think a 3/16" drilled hole and adel clamp riveted in place would not destroy the structure-and be lots more professional.

-And what are those wrinkles in the drivers side main rail?

[Excaliber]

1ntCobra makes a good point about the polished trunk, round tail lights and skinny side pipes (not to mention the rivet count ). The pipes are an attempt to customize, not restore, convert or emulate anything. Same for the polished trunk. The overall theme add's up to "custom" not "restore".

If I was going to do it for that kind of money it would be an exact duplication of an SC. The car, as nice as it is, fails on the "custom" side and also on the "conversion" and "accurate retoration" side's. As Randy noted, return it to exacting original specs would have been another worthy option (all though I wouldn't).

I suspect this car will meet with a bit of disdain when shown with other original Cobras. The reception is likely to be luke warm at best, a real drag if you just paid $700K and your peer's just aren't that excited for you.

Very nice looking car all in all, someone will buy it. IF I had that kind of money, it wouldn't be me though, I'd be looking for a more authentic resto and eye balling street car conversions to SC. Checking for things like "round tail lights", that aint gonna cut it. Need's rivets on the front part of the hood, by the way.


...yup, tough room!

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

All this about an 'authentic' restoration is just too unrealistic. Most of the original 427 Cobras were not originally delivered as they are currently. There's just not enough documentation as to what the cars were when they left AC in England. Shelby finished most of these cars in LA, including paint on many, and many were somewhere between a street Cobra and an SC Cobra. While SAAC has records, they don't have the option lists for all the cars as delivered. Only the original invoices would satisfy as to what these cars were finished and delivered with. Quite unlike a Detroit muscle car with a VIN number that encodes all options. In my opinion, these Cobras should be all that the owners want them to be, within reason (I'm glad we don't see them with these wagon wheels).

[Excaliber]

A reasonable point ZOERA, I'm glad it doesn't have wagon wheels too.

[Woodz428]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

A reasonable point ZOERA, I'm glad it doesn't have wagon wheels too.

Or "snowflakes"

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

There's just not enough documentation as to what the cars were when they left AC in England. Shelby finished most of these cars in LA, including paint on many, and many were somewhere between a street Cobra and an SC Cobra. While SAAC has records, they don't have the option lists for all the cars as delivered. Only the original invoices would satisfy as to what these cars were finished and delivered with.

There is a lot more detail documentation that you imply.

AC kept good records as to how each car was finished when it was shipped to SAI. The delivery invoice from SAI to the dealer/customer, as configured, is available for most all cars.

The production numbers were so small that records are quite detailed.

The only 427 cars painted by SAI were the Comp and S/C; virtually all 427 street cars came painted and preconfigured.

You are right about many cars being changed over the years; a lot of street cars were S/C-ized in subsequent years.

[Ron61]

I haven't compared the new registry to the 1997 version, but the 97 version had a copy of every invoice as to how it left Shelby American and to which dealer or person it was sold or consigned to. Also whether it was complete, partial complete and colors.

Ron

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by computerworks

You are right about many cars being changed over the years; a lot of street cars were S/C-ized in subsequent years.

Ron,
Still hoping answers to my questions in post #45. I wasn't being sarcastic-and I'm fairly certain cars weren't built that way.

My question is not about the current debate over a correct restoration-there were no factory-built street cars built with Webers in the first place-correct? This is the usual street- car-to-mostly SC rehash anyway.

I just want to know if anyone has attached frame lines like that and for what purpose and an explanation of the wrinkled main tube. Was the car ever bent or just jacked in the wrong places? The obvious workmanship is at odds with these somewhat unseemly details. Not expected to find on a $700K asking. Can you help?

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

OK so riddle-me-this: Why does Mr. $314K 'restorer'/modifier use 5" worm clamps on both main frame rails and what lines are they holding?

I would think a 3/16" drilled hole and adel clamp riveted in place would not destroy the structure-and be lots more professional.

I don't think they are compression clamps; they look more like doubled-up soft-metal cable wraps, like original type. I know comp-style fuel lines were held in place with adel clamps, but were screwed to the frame with hex-head self-tappers.

I think that that style wraparound is correct, but I will have to go thru the archives to validate the wrapped clamps, though. I don't see that on many old shots...BUT I have seen orig frames with scratch marks in a circular fashion around the tubes, that might indicate that they once had a wrap-around clamp.

-And what are those wrinkles in the drivers side main rail?

I would guess bottom-out history scars or bad lift points. I know I wrinkled a frame section on my old GT350 on a bad day with a floor jack, way back when.

Don't see a return line leaving the Weber side. Anybody know?

This car got the webers in the 80's... let a weber expert address the fuel line config.

[MOTORHEAD]

Chas; the dings are in crossmembers, the worst is the very front member, and the 2nd crossmember between the oil pan and the bell also has a dent. most cobras will show some dents underneath sooner or later, but at the asking price and the attention to detail shown on the restoration, it's hard imagine why they didn't replace those crossmembers.
Ted

[ERA Chas]

Ron,

Thanks-that's the type of info I was hoping for. Am not surprised Comp cars may have had clamped lines-but these lines seem more like brake tubing OD than fuel line. Can't figure why this detail was used on 3259 when so may other major things have been altered.Keep digging if you care to-I'm fascinated to dig this up. Maybe Ned could weigh-in?

Ted,

You got my point exactly. Changing out damaged crossmembers and a main tube would be much more commensurate with a $300+K tab than blingy non original pipes and trunk. This work seems more geared to the BJ circus crowd. "It's shiney and rare so I'll buy it".

Don't think Legendary or Kris K. would turn this out.

[RodKnock]

Would an owner of an historic car prefer to keep a dented original crossmember piece rather than replace it with a newer piece?

The car was also prepped and run in the Monterey Historics, according to the writeup, and maybe that has something to do with the clamps lines.

Lastly, the owner dictates what is done and what is not done on a car, so it's possible the owner may have wanted something a certain way and the restorer had no choice in the matter.

Just speculating and I'm by no means a mechanic.

[mickmate]

Good discussion as I am a huge fan of stock street cars. I looked around an original restorers shop that I do work for and he said exactly what Rod points out, the owner dictates what does and doesn't get done to a car. I sounded like my kids with the "yeah but" response and the best he can do is tell them if we do this it won't make this event as a way of trying to talk them out of putting a comp screen on a street car or a bottom half of a comp tank under a glass spare wheel tray. If the guy has pictures in his head of certain looks and no feel for originality and a big pocket full of cash, discussion is over and work is under way! What the hey it doesn't matter what's been done to them it can be undone by guys like us.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Would an owner of an historic car prefer to keep a dented original crossmember piece rather than replace it with a newer piece?

The car was also prepped and run in the Monterey Historics, according to the writeup, and maybe that has something to do with the clamps lines.

Lastly, the owner dictates what is done and what is not done on a car, so it's possible the owner may have wanted something a certain way and the restorer had no choice in the matter.

Just speculating and I'm by no means a mechanic.

Everyone on this site (whether they drive an original or fake Cobra) has their own specific idea of how they want their car to be prepared (or restored), be it for street, track or both. There is no right or wrong way. From what I see, most original Cobra owners don't give a rat's ass as to how these cars left LA when new. A Cobra is a Cobra (original), and can stand on their own anywhere. I'm am quite surprised that SAAC has the build records and invoices for these originals, though. Even GM never kept complete records for the Corvette builds, leaving the enthusiast only the VIN and engine numbers to decode the car.

[computerworks]

I'm am quite surprised that SAAC has the build records and invoices for these originals

Only took the work of few dedicated folks a few decades to accumulate.

Plus, quite a bit of footnotes on each cars history thru the years... like, I can see in the Registry how many times this car was known to be painted...and what colors.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Originally Posted by computerworks

Only took the work of few dedicated folks a few decades to accumulate.

Plus, quite a bit of footnotes on each cars history thru the years... like, I can see in the Registry how many times this car was known to be painted...and what colors.

Wouldn't that be only if the owner had reported it? There must be empty periods with most of these cars???