Big block CSX3259 at dealership near SF

[computerworks]

Data is accumulated from owner submissions as well as third-party reports, classified ads and any public appearance of the car in print.

Sure, there are gaps on many cars.

[DMXF]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

Everyone on this site (whether they drive an original or fake Cobra) has their own specific idea of how they want their car to be prepared (or restored), be it for street, track or both. There is no right or wrong way. From what I see, most original Cobra owners don't give a rat's ass as to how these cars left LA when new. A Cobra is a Cobra (original), and can stand on their own anywhere.

The majority of Cobras had modifications or optional original factory parts added early in the car's life, which was promoted by Shelby American, and that is the aura of what they were about... as such, a number of buyers want a car like they remember seeing growing up. In recent years a greater number of buyers strive for "as delivered" but in one respect removing all the comp parts and putting cars back to exactly how they left the factory can be considered creating something that didn't exist for the useful life of the car. The desireability of such comp features to some can be maximized to many hard core enthusiasts if all the parts are genuine original. That said, care should be given as any such deviations can often become a prime breeding ground for cancerous disregard for any originality and after decades of replacing things with whatever is readily available, you end up not being able to find any fine features of the original manufacturing uniqueness on the entire car. The best solution seems to be storing any "as delivered" items so they can be retrofitted down the road if desired and keeping everything factory original, whether comp or street.

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

I'm am quite surprised that SAAC has the build records and invoices for these originals, though. Even GM never kept complete records for the Corvette builds, leaving the enthusiast only the VIN and engine numbers to decode the car.

Cobra invoices were usually not that detailed, but there are enough pictures of many cars when new, understanding of how chassis number ranges were configured and comments from prior owners to piece together the majority of their early attributes.

[Ron61]

Dcmgt,

Not to argue with you, but the invoices in the 1997 registry were pretty well detailed. They area pain to read as they used very small print and I have to use a magnifying glass, but they pretty well cover the car from when Shelby got it to what was done and where it went from there. After that it is up to the people who bought them to keep the registry people informed as to any changes and many don't. I haven't sit down and compared the invoices in the new registry with those in the old one yet, so it may not be as detailed.

Ron

[DMXF]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Dcmgt, Not to argue with you, but the invoices in the 1997 registry were pretty well detailed. They area pain to read as they used very small print and I have to use a magnifying glass, but they pretty well cover the car from when Shelby got it to what was done and where it went from there. After that it is up to the people who bought them to keep the registry people informed as to any changes and many don't. I haven't sit down and compared the invoices in the new registry with those in the old one yet, so it may not be as detailed. Ron

Ron - Of the invoices I've seen, focusing primarily on big block cars, the detail is inconsistent. Some comp car sheets list everything down to the seat belts (which most if not all cars came with), while many others just say "comp car". Ned could maybe add more here. The significant aspect most applicable to this discussion is that any major deviation from what was considered standard for that type of car at that point in production was typically called out on the invoice so SA could charge extra for it.

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Dcmgt,

Not to argue with you, but the invoices in the 1997 registry were pretty well detailed. They area pain to read as they used very small print and I have to use a magnifying glass, but they pretty well cover the car from when Shelby got it to what was done and where it went from there. After that it is up to the people who bought them to keep the registry people informed as to any changes and many don't. I haven't sit down and compared the invoices in the new registry with those in the old one yet, so it may not be as detailed.

Ron

Ron,
I think you will find you are thinking of the invoices for the 289 leaf spring cars as they were much more detailed compared to the coil spring cars. The 289 invoices showed each option installed by SAI. By the time the 427's were being produced the element of options became more of a dealer provided item.

[Ron61]

You are both correct. I was thinking of the leaf spring cars. The big block cars invoices were inconsistent to say the least. And with the amount of changes over all of these years it is really difficult to actually know exactly how many of them left SAI back in the 60s. One of the most consistent things I have found in both registries is which engine they had when they left SAI.

Ron

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Ron61

... it is really difficult to actually know exactly how many of them left SAI back in the 60s.

I believe they all did.

[Ron61]

Ok, so I fell into that one. To use one of those worn out phrases, You know what I meant.

Ron

[computerworks]

I know...but I couldn't resist....

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

With these points made, theoretically speaking, would a 427 Cobra originally equipped with a 428 PI engine be worth less with a period correct 427 engine than with the original 428? Would this modification be pro or con?

[Ron61]

I think that would be hard to answer. To the purist that wants a correct car it would be worth less. To the person that wants an original Cobra and prefers the 427 it would probably be worth more. Individual tastes vary and will ultimately determine the price the car brings. I guess it is worth whatever a person is willing to pay for it.

Ron

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Ron61

To the person that wants an original Cobra and prefers the 247 it would probably be worth more.
Ron

I don't know of many people that would prefer a 247, but I could be wrong

[Ron61]

Typo, Typo, Typo. Sorry I will correct that. Boy you are a hard bunch to please.

Ron

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Boy you area hard bunch to please.

If you think the "area hard" guys are tough, you should meet the rest of us from "area 51".

[Excaliber]

zoera, a lot of folks were VERY unhappy when they realized their "247" ( ) was actually a 428. Or so I've heard. It was quite a big deal early on. Rumor has it Shelby replaced some 428's with a 427, sweet heart deals for a select few perhaps. Others pulled the 428 and installed the 427 themselves.

Pro or Con? I really don't think it carries much weight either way, depending on what the buyer is looking for. A buyer looking wanting a 428 just because thats what it came with would be a rare duck I think. In THAT situation the car itself would need to be restored to very exacting standards all the way around.

[DMXF]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Pro or Con? I really don't think it carries much weight either way, depending on what the buyer is looking for. A buyer looking wanting a 428 just because thats what it came with would be a rare duck I think. In THAT situation the car itself would need to be restored to very exacting standards all the way around.

The majority (ie; more than 50%) of original car owners or buyers I hear from would prefer the car have a 428 if it were delivered that way, which drives some people to exclude 32XX cars from their "look for" list as a potential buyer (unless it was a sweet deal). Excaliber makes a good point in that even 32XX cars that had 428's reinstalled after having a 427 at some point don't seem to be materially higher valued, which may be because most of the time the restoration does not include all the detailing to really make the car as delivered. For example, it can take far more effort to find the original emissions tube or Autolite carb or original hose clamps for that matter than it can just to find a 428 block and heads, and some people recognize that. The significantly higher selling prices seem to really show if the car is a low mileage "original belts and hoses" survivor, of which there are only maybe one or two examples left.

[Excaliber]

If I was wanting a 428 engine in my original Cobra I'd be looking real hard at the rest of the car as well.

It would be rather foolish, I think, to become so focused on the correct engine when other original specs aren't even in the ball park. Going 428? Get the rest of the car up to speed with that goal as well. OR, slap some side pipes on that street car, drop in the 427 and be happy!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

With these points made, theoretically speaking, would a 427 Cobra originally equipped with a 428 PI engine be worth less with a period correct 427 engine than with the original 428? Would this modification be pro or con?

JMHO, but as far as value, it's in the eye of the beholder, but generally, the cars achieving the highest market value will be the cars that are "original" as they left the factory. The auction sales results seem to support that statement.

[Randy Rosenberg]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

JMHO, but as far as value, it's in the eye of the beholder, but generally, the cars achieving the highest market value will be the cars that are "original" as they left the factory. The auction sales results seem to support that statement.

This is the point that I was trying to make earlier - Rodney's just better at it than I am.

Thanks,
Randy...

[RodKnock]

Sorry Randy, I just reread your post and my post is indeed repetitive.

Although, I would like to point out, as a former owner of a 1966 Corvette Convertible with a 540ci/5-speed with vintage Torq Thrust D's, that the Corvette crowd can make an owner of a non-original Vette seem even more like a pariah than the Cobra crowd when an original is modified. I think, since I've never owned a CSX2000 or CSX3000.