GR-1, Possible replica?

[ERA Chas]

Featured in Comer's book "Shelby" on page 234, the Ford concept GR-1 is shown in four stunning photos. It really should have been the successor to the Daytona.

My questions to knowledgeable builders and manufacturers is; can this car be legally replicated and what would be involved from a technical standpoint?

I know the car belongs to Ford but there is no indication that it will resurface as a production vehicle.

Sheet metal and glass fiber manufacturers please discuss your thoughts.

[Gunner]

Honestly? It looks like half the kit cars out there and has no real Shelby or real-world heritage that makes it desirable. Just another concept executed while Ol' Shel' was taking a fee.

[Jac Mac]

Chas, I like the car a lot, but one thing that makes it a no go for me is that it needs a fairly 'plush' ( for want of a better word ) interior to do it 'right'. The Daytona Coupe & Cobra were simple no frills ex race cars, a bit of vinyl & matt black paint and you have most of the trim done!! Thats where the $$$ would go on one of these.
But your right, out of all the Ford Concept cars in recent times, this is the 'one' that should have made it, even over the 'GT'.

[vector1]

looks like the pantera.

[ERA Chas]

Jac,

I appreciate your view as a constructor and racer and it has merit. The proportions and stance are not outdone even by the F-GT, in my opinion.

I have seen some SPF/Brock coupes that also have a high level of 'plush' compared to the original Daytona-but admittedly- not the level seen in the concept car. Of course the Daytona was a race car, not a concept car. The key phrase is 'concept car' which would display a fairly 'comfy' interior.

Myself, if one were available, I would build it sparse but neat as any business-like road racer/GT car should be.

[RedBarchetta]

Damn...I thought my 20 car dream garage was going to be big enough. I better call up my architect and tell him to make it 21.

-Dean

[*13*]

It's a nice looikng car, not much history attached to it though. It would have to made in aluminum if a replica were to be made. I like the car & the idea but it wouldn't be that high on my list, personally. I bet ford would throw their lawyers at it, being that it was more or less a concept, correct?

[Sharroll Celby]

Ford SHOULD make the car, and call it the Lincoln Mark Coupe, or even the Thunderbird! That GR-1 is one of the BEST-looking cars to come out of Detroit in MANY years.
IF Ford built and sold it, (at the right price!), they would sell hundreds of thousands of them!

[*13*]

I agree with you! I bet the price would be quite high, though. Probably similar to the GT. I think as a production car with a warranty it would be a huge seller with high initial demand like the GT & the Early Vipers

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Sharroll Celby

Ford SHOULD make the car, and call it the Lincoln Mark Coupe, or even the Thunderbird! That GR-1 is one of the BEST-looking cars to come out of Detroit in MANY years.
IF Ford built and sold it, (at the right price!), they would sell hundreds of thousands of them!

All of the makers turn out beautiful concept cars by the handful every year. This one is pretty, yes. It's also pretty impractical, on the order of the Vette... which does not sell hundreds of thousands a year. (20-35,000 in most recent years.) I also can't see it selling at anything but a premium price, on a par with the Vette or higher, which would further limit sales.

I doubt that Ford could have sold many more GTs than were made. Maybe another few thousand a year.

Bottom line is that the next ten years are not going to be a good time for a limited-production exotic vehicle from automakers struggling to regain a solid financial footing and respectability in the eyes of buyers.

[*13*]

Maybe we're running with SoCal blinders on Where just about every 5th car on the road retails at more than $75k They would sell quite a few here...

[rustyBob]

its a cool looking car but i would rather have a Daytona Coupe.........

[Sharroll Celby]

The GR-1 does NOT have to be sold at a premium price. Let Ford put their 310 HP V6 in it, at $25,000, with an optional V8 at $30,000, and watch them FLY out of the lots.

[ERA Chas]

The course of this discussion, while valid, has strayed away from my original question.

I'm not asking for a production car that a secretary could buy with a V6-there are retro Mustangs wall to wall for that.

From my first post:
"My questions to knowledgeable builders and manufacturers is; can this car be legally replicated and what would be involved from a technical standpoint?

I know the car belongs to Ford but there is no indication that it will resurface as a production vehicle."


I'm seeking input from the builders like Kirkham, Bruce, Jac, Nick, Chesnut, Hudgins plus any of the current major replica mfgrs on the pros and cons of trying to replicate this car-for guys like us here on the forum, not the general public.

Is this car a valid candidate for that?

[1985 CCX]

I always though Ford should have made this a production car for the masses. A "Miata" killer with a supercharged V6, IRS and daily driving touches. This may not have been a world class collectable however I feel it could have been a great $30k sport car for the masses....

Simple, fast with low frills ie: techno junk, a sports car.

Today's version of the Mustang?

[mr bruce]

To answer the original question, could this car be built as a replica, yes, nuthin' to it, send me $5k a month for 12 months and I'll build you a running, driving replica of that car. Keep in mind that's FoMoCo's design, so you pay all legal fees too.

[slider701]

Could this car ever be built as a production based car????? The simple answer is yes, you’re only limited by time and money. A prime example is the Ellison – Kirkham Cobra.

The real question comes down to economics and the business case to actually build it. The other part of the equation is the bastardization that would be needed to make the car legal to meet FMVSS and CARB standards for a 2014 – 2016 model year (assuming you could even get it done that quickly)

The Ford GT program was between $125 – 150MM in development costs. This was an all out effort by Ford bringing the best of the best in terms of design engineers, manufacturing guys, and management together to make it happen in 24 months (plus the head start that was laid down in the 6-8+ years on the Petunia program leading up to it). Bill Ford gave the team unlimited resources and a free pass to do what it would take to make the program happen in order to meet the centennial anniversary. This included amnesty from many of the bureaucratic Ford processes and also from the mainstream product development management who didn’t understand the purpose or need for the Ford GT program.

To produce a production version of the GR-1 today would most likely take double or triple the resources (in both manpower and $$$) due to the more stringent crash and emissions regulations. This was one of the reasons the Ford GT never was produced beyond 2006. The bumper and seating/airbag requirements made further production of the car not financially feasible and would have drastically altered the appearance of the front and rear of the car. In looking at the body lines of the GR-1 it most likely would be even more of a challenge. A typical new car development program for a high volume vehicle is between $750MM - $2BB depending on the scope of the program and how much can carry over from previous generations of models. Even a low volume vehicle, like a SVT product that is based off an existing product line can cost $50-100MM. Trying to amortize the engineering costs along with the material and labor costs into a $30K vehicle just doesn’t work out financially. Without a compelling reason (like the 100th anniversary of Ford Motor Company) it just doesn’t make business sense to produce a vehicle like this as a main stream application.

With all of that said it would still be nice for someone like the Kirkhams to approach Ford/Shelby in attempting to make this vehicle on a low volume “kit” type of roller to avoid the crash/emissions standards. The CAD files exist for this vehicle. All it would take is getting the right people at Ford and Shelby to agree to this. That in itself would most likely prove to be more of a challenge than actually building the car.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Jac Mac

But how would 'you' as a replica builder want it done, on chassis similar to what we have now, or grafted on to a donor car floorpan as intimated above. For me it would be on a chassis similar to current replicas or perhaps an alloy mono type chassis like the RCR cars adapted of course to the front engine/transaxle deal. Im not a fan of adapting to an existing unit body floorpan like some of the GTO F****** car lookalikes, too much corrosion waiting to happen when the f/glass is bonded to the steel structure & while its a relatively inexpensive way to build the car initially, in the case of accident damage its a nightmare to rebuild other than buying another donor floorpan & starting again.

This is the sort of input I'm seeking. I have no interest in viewing this as a production car by any manufacturer. I'm trying to see how a replica-based mfgr would evaluate this car-both from a business and technical sense. Thanks, Jac.

Originally Posted by mr bruce

To answer the original question, could this car be built as a replica, yes, nuthin' to it, send me $5k a month for 12 months and I'll build you a running, driving replica of that car. Keep in mind that's FoMoCo's design, so you pay all legal fees too.

OK Bruce, so you're saying to go get all the legalities and permissions straight first then come to you money in hand-then go away while you scratch build it. Correct?
My question then is- where and how do you acquire accurate source material to build replicas? Do you just get the photos and whack foam chunks into something that resembles it? Something that looks this good would live or die on the accuracy of lines, proportions and dimensions.
And assuming as customer I wanted an original-style simple ladder chassis and say a blown 4 valve Mod motor-
you'd build as such?

Originally Posted by slider701

With all of that said it would still be nice for someone like the Kirkhams to approach Ford/Shelby in attempting to make this vehicle on a low volume “kit” type of roller to avoid the crash/emissions standards. The CAD files exist for this vehicle. All it would take is getting the right people at Ford and Shelby to agree to this. That in itself would most likely prove to be more of a challenge than actually building the car.

This is very correct Slider. Your previous points are just what I strictly want to avoid for such a project-the necessary evils to make it a production car.
Yes the CAD does exist but it was all created by someone inside Ford and is their intellectual property. How does one legally obtain the material and permission to turn this into a very low volume replica vehicle?
Assuming it makes sense as their business model, I'm sure it would take an entity with the stature of the Kirkhams to legally acquire the material and produce a roller replica.

I'm speculating along the lines of what the Smiths of FF did when they created their GT coupe. The difference being that it's THEIR intelluctual property and design-not an existing concept, prototype or production car (past or present).

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Is this car a valid candidate for that?

I'd say no. To recast my prior answers, this car is purty... real damn purty. But it has no other compelling feature and would become one of many purty kit cars, with its fan and owner base but a small one. Probably not enough to repay Kirkham or ERA level engineering to put it on the road.

Frankly... I'd like to see a well-engineered, original-but-better replica of a Tipo 61, built around a supercharged Ford 2-liter. Or - a worthy replica of the original Countach, all planes and angles without a wing in sight.

Another pretty-pretty longnose coupe... it would be a painful waste.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Sharroll Celby

The GR-1 does NOT have to be sold at a premium price. Let Ford put their 310 HP V6 in it, at $25,000, with an optional V8 at $30,000, and watch them FLY out of the lots.

You need a much better understanding of auto sales dynamics and costs. Really. Engine cost is not the make or break figure here.