CSX 6000 at Barrett-Jackson

[Excaliber]

The rabbit makes us read it, I think mrmustang has something to do with it. Him and the bunnies.

[REAL 1]

Fair enough. I edited my statement.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

I don't think Comers article was meant as a commentary on whether the CSX Cobras are genuine Cobras (my reading of the article indicates to me he was using "replica" in broad sweeping sense as including anything other than the original series).

"The most accurate replicas are without question the Shelby continuation cars in aluminum (with bodies again supplied by AC Cars); or the Kirkham aluminum cars."

That tells me how Mr. Comers feels without ambiguity, at least as of March 2008.

[REAL 1]

Thats fine. He can feel that way. Don't care. Perhaps his "feelings" are slightly biased in that he apparently owns a 3000 series himself. Anyway, IMHO SAAC is THE authority on the particular subject of what is considered a genuine Cobra and what is a replica.

Also, I think he was using the term replica to include everything that isn't original. I believe thats clearly at odds with SAACs position. I'll go with SAAC. For those that don't agree with SAAC toss your Registry in the garbage.

[RodKnock]

Mr. Comer is a noted expert on the marque and writes for the largest auction magazine that I'm aware of at least. You mentioned general market perception of the CSX (and Kirkham too) as a Cobra. Notwithstanding what SAAC states in the registry, my point is that you and I don't equate to "general market perception."

If he's correct, then we both own very expensive replicas and that's how the market perceives them. Personally, I don't care, but I wanted to make the point about your use of the phrase "general market" and its perception of CSX Cobras. SAAC is unrelated to the "general market."

Dave, I'm sorry.

[somedayaurora]

I have to point out Crommer probally paid less for his original than you guys paid for your continuations . He's seems to be a snob , and let's be fair your "Cobra's" are of such a higher quality , just no patina . As for SAAC's views on continuation's , I would bet the head guys don't really believe continuations are "real" Don't most of them own originals ? Do you guy's feel Elanor is a real gt 500 ? And lets remember carrol has no problem suing SAAC if they cross him , "It's real if I say it's real" . But what the hell do I know I'm a poseur .
Back to original topic , great deal on csx 6018 at BJ
SDR

[bret a ewing]

Colin sat in the front row at BJ, I think he really wanted to buy the CSX6000 but was afraid Pratt would suddely be interested and smoke 'em.

[bdeutsch]

For the last two-years, (actually longer I suspect), I have been looking at the various specialty constructed Cobras that are currently available. Please note my use of the term "specialty constructed (SPCN)", as this is the way my state of residence (California) refers to any Cobra roller (Factory Five to SPF to Kirkham to Shelby and with apologies to those manufacturers I did not mention). At the end of the discussion it is the same goat rope registration process for any of the above. Maybe this is the great equalizer in my current thoughts regarding value...just not sure.

To be honest, I seem to have migrated towards the Shelby and Kirkham end of this discussion (I am partical to the 289FIA version). This is not saying that they are any more an accurate reproduction (SPCN as defined by California) than any of the other brands mentioned. So at days end, using these two examples as a baseline, one could easily spend anywhere from $85k (low end) to as much as $135k to get one on the street. At the end of this effort, you would then have to go through the CA registration process.

Now here is where one needs to split the emotional discussion (I have wanted a Cobra for perhaps 30-years) from the $ Common Sense discussion. Would I ever expect my SPCN vehicle to either appreciate or hold its value over the short/long term. While I might hope that it would, I submit that the current economic situation we are seeing play out would not favor this outcome (whether they are registered in SAAC or not).

The next train of thought that is going through my mind is what kind of car I could I buy for that same $100,000 (nearest whole $ figure) without the hassle of SB100 (CA SPCN process). This choice would vary significantly from person-to-person, but the same kind of money would get you a 2001-2002 low mileage Ferrari 360 Modena (another car I have lusted after), absolutely the best example available of a 1974 Detamaso Pantera (yet another lust of mine/with money left over), and others.

Point I am trying to make here is that as car guys, it is very easy to let your emotion for a particular brand cloud your $ common sense. In perspective though, and going back to my earlier comment regarding the state of the economy, we should all be thankful that we still have the means to actually be thinking about stuff like this versus much more basic needs.

[jay bentley]

I usually don't respond to these types of threads. However, they are usually a great read with a big bowl of popcorn! Always entertaining.

The only thing I would like to add is once everyone is sitting behind the wheel and driving their cobra, you get the same amount of smiles per mile no matter what brand. It really doesn't matter who made what. I have driven an original 427S/C and it brought the same happiness to me that an ERA or Kirkham or Shelby would. They are just fun to drive!

Who cares who made what, as long as they bring happiness to you it shouldn't matter what Joe so and so says about it.

Thats all I have to say.... carry on!

[RedBarchetta]

bdeutsch and jay, well stated!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by bdeutsch

This choice would vary significantly from person-to-person, but the same kind of money would get you a 2001-2002 low mileage Ferrari 360 Modena (another car I have lusted after)

You mean I could have bought a Ferrari 360 Modena?

[REAL 1]

Mr. Comer may be an automotive expert but IMHO the top authority on all things Cobra is SAAC and the Bible on all things Cobra IMHO is the SAAC Registry.

I don't believe IMHO that one authors article on replicas regardless his knowledge in the field of automobiles sets the standard as to what is and is not a replica. Then we would have to change direction everytime an "expert" wrote an article and voiced his opinion.

Nope...for me I'll stay with SAACs position. SAAC to me sets the standard for identifying and defining all things Cobra and GT40 and Shelby Mustang. The SAAC Registry IMHO sets the standard as to how these cars are to be considered in the general public. Not some isolated article on Cobra replicas, written by an automotive author that no less owns a 3000 series. Just becaues he throws the Continuation seires in with the term "replica" doesn't mean thats how the general public accepts the cars.

The Registry to my understanding is THE authoritative text on Cobras and Shelbys and I believe is widely recognized and accepted as such. Its over 1600 pages containing detailed information on these cars. It is the product of a number of dedicated automotive experts and enthusiasts. It has been around for about for about 30 years now and is the culmination of 30 years of research in its 4th edition.

The SAAC Registry "defines what Cobras are". This is one of its purposes.

Continuation series Cobras are not defined as replicas as that term is commonly used and understood today by the SAAC Registry. SAAC defines Continuation series Cobras (CSX 4000 series) as "current production Cobras". See page 30. While someone on this thread speculated that some head guys at SAAC may feel different, who knows.. they may not. Thats speculation. Who knows. What we do know is the official position they have taken and I'm sure that was the product of discussion and consensus at SAAC.

Also I think the general public perception of Continuation Cobras as something more then "replicas" is further buttressed by the fact they even in fiberglass bodied form are brinnging near $100K+ and more at auction in this economy no less. Try getting that for an ERA, SPF or Unique or any other "replica". Good luck.

It comes down to respect. Respect what others have. It will be returned to you. I agree with Jay also that you should just enjoy what you have, but that also means not pissing in the other guys sleeping blanket too.

Takes care.

[computerworks]

How's that SAAC membership? ...up to date?

[RodKnock]

I'm not sure why you keep quoting text from the SAAC Registry. I think we all know it by now.

Mr. Comer writes for a auction magazine with a reasonably large distribution, at least before the economy tanked, and thus his readers ARE the auction sellers and buyers that you speak of. I can only surmise, but I believe he's just reflecting what the "general market" thinks about ALL our Cobras, CSX's, KMP's, ERA's, SPF's, BDR's, FFR's, etc., etc.

BTW, I'm not trying to be a shill for Mr. Comer, since I've never met him, but here's his Company's website:

http://www.colinsclassicauto.com/

He deals in all sorts of cars and I believe he vintage races his '65 or 66 GT350. I can't recall which.

[RedBarchetta]

So who really has the biggest SAAC here?

Relax...just having fun with all the banter. It's actually all quite educational if you can separate the wheat from the chaff.

"Continuation series" sounds more appropriate for the modern CSX cars. I can buy into that logic (not literally, but I get it). The CSX cars are more than a mere replica and having Carroll build/endorse them is good enough for this replica owner.

-Dean

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

So who really has the biggest SAAC here?

Relax...just having fun with all the banter. It's actually all quite educational if you can separate the wheat from the chaff.

"Continuation series" sounds more appropriate for the modern CSX cars. I can buy into that logic (not literally, but I get it). The CSX cars are more than a mere replica and having Carroll build/endorse them is good enough for this replica owner.

-Dean

Dean, I don't consider you the "general public." A gentleman and a scholar, yes, but not "John Q. Public" or your typical "John Q. Auction Buyer and/or Seller."

[REAL 1]

I keep quoting from the SAAC Registry because I believe they are the ultimate authority on what these cars are and how they are defined and accepted/recognized.

Not some isolated article on replicas.

Thats my point.

Carry on.

Takes care

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Well, you can roll your eyes and laugh all you want if that makes you feel better but the fact of the matter is the general public and those that buy and sell these cars including auction houses have begun to clearly view CSX continuaiton Cobras as authentic Shelby Cobras and more then mere "replicas" as that term is commonly used and understood today.

No, this was your point, and missing your own point. I'll quote you again:

"...the general public and those that buy and sell these cars including auction houses have begun to clearly view CSX continuaiton Cobras as authentic Shelby Cobras and more then mere "replicas"...

You may be right or you may be wrong, but SAAC is NOT considered "the general public."

Personally, I think the general public sees every non-CSX2000 and CSX3000 Cobra as merely a replica, as Mr. Comer thinks. Thus, I disagree with your statement above.

[Slither]

Originally Posted by bret a ewing

Colin sat in the front row at BJ, I think he really wanted to buy the CSX6000 but was afraid Pratt would suddely be interested and smoke 'em.

There is nothing special about CSX6018, although it is a fine car. I seriously doubt that Ron Pratt would have wanted that car! If he had wanted it, it would be in his museum by now! LOL

[Cashburn]

Yeah, Ron Pratt would never buy a continuation replica kit car.