FFR "198" Roadster Announcement?

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Don DePontee

An FFR with a perfect copy of the original

Probably not a real good slogan to use.

[Cashburn]

Bill,
I understand that. However the pain is usually eased in those cases by a significant difference in price/cost. If this MkIV is only $1,000 more than a Mk3.1 then you are seriously pissed if you took advantage of the year long summer special right?

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Maybe after they're available FFR should offer discounted (body) updates for those cars in process.

[Seagull81]

Here you go guys. The new MK IV.
http://www.factoryfive.com/roadster/update/Mk4.html

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Bill,
If this MkIV is only $1,000 more than a Mk3.1 then you are seriously pissed if you took advantage of the year long summer special right?

Not really, as I got what I paid for at that time. Every company I know makes revisions and upgrades from time to time, why should I be angry when I did not know it was already in the pipeline. The ones who might be upset are the ones who's kits have not yet been picked up or shipped from FFR, they should have a right (I believe they can upgrade their kits before they ship) to upgrade to the latest revision for a small fee (to cover costs of the newer kit)........


Bill S.

[jmimac351]

FFR talked about this eventuality 2 years ago so they telegraphed this move waaay in advance and I got out of my car because this possibility was important to me. If this was that important to guys buying recently then I'm not sure why they bought. It seemed obvious to me it would eventually happen and I was willing to wait. I suppose the guys who bought a 2010 Mustang are a little annoyed they are missing out on the new 5.0 as they had no heads-up.

There will always be something new coming along that makes you "gotta have it"...

Ain't competition great?

[Maricopa]

Still some oddities in the rear fenders and they retained the front turn signal pads. Also the sides don't tuck under. Big improvement over mine though. I went through a lot of hassles dropping the rear and getting a scoopless hood etc.

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted by Maricopa

Still some oddities in the rear fenders and they retained the front turn signal pads. Also the sides don't tuck under. Big improvement over mine though. I went through a lot of hassles dropping the rear and getting a scoopless hood etc.

So you don't think this is the digitized 198 body? I haven't compared them.

[Maricopa]

Not a 'perfect' one. It has front turn signal pads and the body doesn't tuck in at the bottom like a 'REAL' one. Not too sure about the rear fenders either, although 198s rear fenders have never seemed quite as flared out at the bottom rear as others.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

FFR talked about this eventuality 2 years ago so they telegraphed this move waaay in advance and I got out of my car because this possibility was important to me. If this was that important to guys buying recently then I'm not sure why they bought. It seemed obvious to me it would eventually happen and I was willing to wait. I suppose the guys who bought a 2010 Mustang are a little annoyed they are missing out on the new 5.0 as they had no heads-up.

There will always be something new coming along that makes you "gotta have it"...

Ain't competition great?

I hear you on that but the primary difference here is that the owner of the 2010 Mustang has been driving and enjoying it. My thoughts were with the guys that are still in the build phase ... that's the other edge of the Kit Car sword I guess

On a similar note we've had a rash of trade offers that include 2008 and 2009 Mustangs ... I'm sure the 5.0 next year has something to do with it.

[TButtrick]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

I hear you on that but the primary difference here is that the owner of the 2010 Mustang has been driving and enjoying it. My thoughts were with the guys that are still in the build phase ... that's the other edge of the Kit Car sword I guess

On a similar note we've had a rash of trade offers that include 2008 and 2009 Mustangs ... I'm sure the 5.0 next year has something to do with it.

Tough call but what is a manufacturer to do? Stop shipments 6 months before the newest version is introduced? Recall the previous version and replace with new? This is a business and a profitable one at that. This happens with a every other consumer product that grows market share. The overwhelming majority of FFR owners doesn't give a rats ass about originality. They would keep selling kits at a pretty good clip doing nothing at all. Like any other business trying to survive in these times, if the market seems saturated, then making changes to take market share from the existing available market is a sound strategy. That's what they'll do and there is more to come.

[jmimac351]

Todd, let me know if you've heard anything about a 289 from FFR.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by TButtrick

Tough call but what is a manufacturer to do? Stop shipments 6 months before the newest version is introduced? Recall the previous version and replace with new? This is a business and a profitable one at that. This happens with a every other consumer product that grows market share. The overwhelming majority of FFR owners doesn't give a rats ass about originality. They would keep selling kits at a pretty good clip doing nothing at all. Like any other business trying to survive in these times, if the market seems saturated, then making changes to take market share from the existing available market is a sound strategy. That's what they'll do and there is more to come.

Absolutely right. FFR has done very well in the market place with their current offering, perky butt and all. By making the move towards a more original looking body shape, they will be expanding their target market to now include the customers who want their replicas to look more like a Cobra, and the people who didn't care so much about originality before will still be happy.

The folks who bought the "old" FFR's knew what they were buying - if they cared deeply about the accuracy of the body shape, they would have shopped elsewhere. All that has happened with the body revision is that a whole new group of buyers whose shortlist didn't include FFR before will now be taking a second look and possibly buying a Factory Five roadster. Great move IMO.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by LMH

The rollbar looks to be 1.5" instead of the standard FFR 2". Interesting.
Larry

That is one of the changes they announced in the press release.

[1985 CCX]

Another view...........

[TButtrick]

They must have taken a lot of weight out of the new version. That guy is lifting it up with one hand!

[SunDude]

I hate to generalize, but most of the FFR owners I've met were primarily interesting in the experience of building a car and weren't terribly hung up on the idea of "accuracy." They had a vision of the Cobra they wanted to build and FFR was the perfect platform for them. No doubt the single-donor model was attractive to some of them, too. With more than 7000 kits sold, obviously FFR has been pretty successful so far.

So does the new MkIV represent a shift in target market for FFR? Are they going after the Cobra purist, y'know the guy who would've bought an ERA or other kit, or just trying to improve their product for their usual customer base?

[Three Peaks]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Absolutely right. FFR has done very well in the market place with their current offering, perky butt and all. By making the move towards a more original looking body shape, they will be expanding their target market to now include the customers who want their replicas to look more like a Cobra, and the people who didn't care so much about originality before will still be happy.

The folks who bought the "old" FFR's knew what they were buying - if they cared deeply about the accuracy of the body shape, they would have shopped elsewhere. All that has happened with the body revision is that a whole new group of buyers whose shortlist didn't include FFR before will now be taking a second look and possibly buying a Factory Five roadster. Great move IMO.

Agreed.
One of the big reasons I am scratch building is because I either couldn't afford the more original looking replicas or the others were too far from the original to suit my tastes. I considered FFR for a long time before deciding against it because of the quirks with the body design.

With the new design, if I was starting now, I would definitely be going with an FFR at this point. If they ever come out with an accurate 289 FIA body, I'll just may have to consider a second build....

Bob

[mrmustang]

Ok, so now do I have to sell my MK 3, or will there be a retrofit kit for the new MK IV body on the MK 3 chassis? Perhaps now that this is out of the bag you could start on that "CE" 289FIA project that was supposedly coming in "August 2002" .


Yours In Fords,

Bill S.

(post taken off ffcobra, if this is not allowed, let me know and I shall remove it)

Originally Posted by FACTORYFIVERACING

Guys,

I leave for Los Angeles tomorrow and will not be in the office on Monday as I’ll be at Solidworks World Convention. I read these posts and while many of the questions will be answered with our detailed release (for those unable to attend the unveiling of the car at Moochfest on the 13th), there are a few I can address now.

Mk3 vs. Mk4:
As we crossed things off the list and it started to become obvious that we were within a few months or so of production start-up capability, I agonized about the right and fair way to introduce the Mk4. I spoke to some customers confidentially (some were “outed” here), our staff and advisors, and asked everyone what would be the best way to do this. The consensus was that the most fair thing in the world was to announce the car about a month or two before we thought we could start production and give guys a CHOICE. We figured some guys (like half those asked!) would rather get a deal on the Mk3, while the other guys would be happy to upgrade to the new Mk4 for a cost. Either way we all agreed this would be the most fair way to do it. As far as the new car at the old price, or with discounts, that’s not really possible/reasonable as it is not the same car and requires more cost to us to build (we also invested alot of money in the new design and tooling and at a time when money is more scarce than Obama supporters in Massachusetts-Brown!).

If you have a Mk3 on order you can either keep your order (with discounts) and we will build your Mk3 as planned (even months out) or you can schedule and change to a new Mk4 and pay a bit more. We would never take anyone’s money and change the rules. It will be your choice. Frankly I can’t tell you how much longer we will make Mk3’s... That will be up to you guys more than us. We will of course keep all tooling and some stock for replacement parts (as we do for almost every part on the Mk1’s and 2’s) for a long long time.

As far as suppliers are concerned, the new Mk4 has quite a few changes and all new panels/molds. The Gess brothers (solid guys) trunk will work on all 7,250 Mk1, 2, and 3’s but not on the Mk4’s that are to come. The trunk aluminum and cockpit aluminum was too connected to the bolt-in suspensions and lowered/reshaped trunk/concealed fuel tank to consider outside vendor impact. They are all-new. Still the Mk3 is not out of production yet and we have many orders on the books and with the close-out specials we are offering, even more people may choose to have us build one before the car is discontinued, so effect on vendor stocks will likely not be as dramatic as might be feared... They were certainly part of the equation.

Passenger roll bar matches the new smaller diameter driver side roll bar and passenger mounts are still there on the frame, whether used or not.

Hood scoop is NOT cut-out or a molded part of the hood. You have to cut and rivet the scoop in place (off-set a bit if you want it to be true to FFR history). The perky butt will also have to be added to the Mk4 as an aftermarket modification (joke).

Footbox aluminum goes outwards and footbox crash bar moved outboard for 1.5” more space at the outside far corner. I have sat in the car and I can take my booted foot off the clutch and stretch my leg straight out to the left. Pretty good. And the wives/girls will like the larger passenger side at last.

I am excited about the new car. There will be a ton more details shortly and I will be at Moochfest along with the enginering and technical staff to answer personally any questions. It was my decision alone to accelerate the release of this information and put this “summary of changes” out early at the specific request of Bill and the forum guys. We will NOT show people the car BEFORE Moochfest (unless you are a customer with a kit on order) as we have divulged quite enough here.

About letting folks know about the project all along:
There was no way we could do this. First of all we really didnt have any solid idea of when the project would be completed. We began work on this two years ago and in earnest/full time last summer. Unlike most projects we’ve done, I really did not know when we would be done with this one. We didn’t have a ton of resources and as other challenges came up this past year, we had to take the project one day at a time. Frankly had it not been for the economy we might have completed this much faster. We did say way back in our March 2008 Newsletter that we would be considering some “legacy series” cars for 2009, so while the project didn't end up exactly as we said, we’re not too late on that call, but that’s about all we said.

Also, I knew that this might be our last “bite at the roadster apple” and I didn’t want outside pressure to rush the project and cause us to gloss over something important. I could not have given earlier notice on this product and almost the entire staff was in the dark about the actual release status/dates because in many ways I didn’t want to have pressure from customers compromise the development path. I figured it would be ready when it was ready. To date we have all production tooling complete with the exception of some smaller welding fixtures and robotic programming. The car we are showing is the first production sample and we will have kit with the gel-coated body on display at Moochfest on the 13th.

I hope all of you know how committed the people at Factory Five are to making sure everyone is served fairly and with the utmost consideration. I wrote some other posts recently about last year and this car specifically.

If any of you have any questions that are not answered, please be patient and I’m sure that the unveiling at Moochfest will make you grin.

If you are a customer and have an order with us, we are here to speak with you and do whatever is best for you. Monday may be busy, but you are in very good hands, that I can assure you!

I am as proud of the work the team has done as I am excited about this new release. You can get the latest and greatest Mk4 soon, or you can get the established category leader Mk3 for a bargin price. I KNOW you’ll like what we’ve done. I also know that if this company is true to it’s calling and charter, this won’t be the last time I introduce you to something new and exciting from our crew!

Dave Smith
President

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted by SunDude

I hate to generalize, but most of the FFR owners I've met were primarily interesting in the experience of building a car and weren't terribly hung up on the idea of "accuracy." They had a vision of the Cobra they wanted to build and FFR was the perfect platform for them. No doubt the single-donor model was attractive to some of them, too. With more than 7000 kits sold, obviously FFR has been pretty successful so far.

So does the new MkIV represent a shift in target market for FFR? Are they going after the Cobra purist, y'know the guy who would've bought an ERA or other kit, or just trying to improve their product for their usual customer base?

When I built my FFR I wasn't concerned as much about the vintage look. Like anyone else I liked the Kirkhams but I thought my FFR looked good and it fit my budget at the time. Over time I began much preferring the more authentic look and I changed some things on my car. 2 years ago FFR announced plans for a "Legacy" series. I think the economy delayed that launch but I sold my car last summer expecting it to happen eventually. Recently I've been looking at the ERA 289 as an alternative. I no longer am. Based on what I've seen so far I'm convinced a 289 car is on the way as well. At the price point they are bringing this to market this is a pretty big deal - if you have the time and ability to build a car.