[Dangerous poll #2] Who played the most important role in the Cobra?

[CobraEd]

Who the hell is Ken Miles ?


.

[Snakebit]

You don't know about Ken Miles? Pick up a Cobra book and start reading about "Teddy Tea Bag".

[Buzz]

I'm sure this poll was created to stir up some good ol' forum fireworks, but in all seriousness - the bottom line is that Shelby initiated and drove the whole Cobra project. Agree or not with his business decisions later on in life, but one cannot deny that he is the man behind the Cobra.

Others played key roles in contributing towards the development and success of the car, but were it not for Shelby, they would have been working on other things. He pulled the team and the resources together and if some of the great names associated with the car had not been available, he would have found and employed someone else. The names would have changed and details of the car and the history, but Shelby would have forged ahead with his pet project regardless.

We can speculate all we want about the guy who might have met John Tojeiro's mother and convinced her to make him study design instead of pottery as the pivotal figure in making the Cobra a reality; but at the end of the day it all comes down to the one man who made it happen. Shelby.

[computerworks]

Intriguing question.. I can't answer with the "most" important

To create that magic, you need:

A master with the vision, the engineering, the implementation and the design.

Four legs of the chair.

Carroll, Remington, Miles and Brock.

Take away any one of them and the results are considerably different.

[Ronbo]

Shelby no doubt, if he had named it "The Cheetah" God knows what would have happened...

[Jac Mac]

They guy who wrote the article about AC stopping production of the car, prior to that one of the top contenders was an Austin Healey among other ideas, who knows what the outcome might have been then, Shelby was intent on the concept of using an existing car & at the time there were several contenders for the powerplant---but which one...

[SunDude]

Originally Posted by Buzz

I'm sure this poll was created to stir up some good ol' forum fireworks...

To some degree that's true. I figured this would be a far more interesting topic than something lame like, "What's your favorite Cobra color?"

So far the results and comments are as I expected, with one big exception: I thought Phil Remington was gonna get many more votes...

[Buzz]

Remington was a major contributing player in the success story, but I can't shake the feeling that the outcome would have been similar even if some of the periphal names were different.

Basic ingredients:

CARROLL SHELBY was committed to his goal.

AC was the perfect candidate for more than one reason - it was no fluke that they were chosen.

GM already had the Vette and were not interested. Ford had no sportscar and were more receptive.

So here we already have the basic Cobra coming together as an AC Ace modified to accept Ford power.

Evolution and develpoment:

Shelby was an experienced and talented racer so he has a feel for what it would take to make the car perform. He hired people to make it happen. If they didn't deliver results, they would have been replaced with people that could.

Street cars needed to be sold, Shelby's a natural Snake oil salesman and the Cobra hype began.

Shelby recruited drivers who could put the car in the winners circle. The car was light and fast. There was no shortage of talented drivers (then or now) and once again - If they didn't deliver results, they would have been replaced with people that could.

Chevy skunkworks deployed the Gran Sport (sp?) Vettes in Nassau. Shelby's feathers were ruffled and the big block Cobra was concieved.

The Ace body/chassis is what it is and the necessary modifications to accomodate the big block engine were pretty much academic. Hence the Cobra we know and love today.

Shelby's magic dust and snake oil cement the big block Cobra's rep as the fastest production car in the world.

The saga of the Texan in bib overalls taking on the world has mass media and popular appeal.

The car is brutally fast, and as an accident of it's roots and subsequent practical modifications, is stunningly beautiful yet stark and simple in execution. As a result, the Cobra goes on to become the most replicated shape in automotive history.

The purpose here was not to post an oversimplified Cobra chronology. I attempt to show that once the ball was set in motion, the evolution of the Cobra , driven by Shelby's ambition and influenced by the conditions and developments of the day, followed a fairly logical and predictable path. Shelby knew what he wanted to accomplish and the other factors were made to fall into place. As for the other people who without question played significant roles - yes they did - but arguably and with no disrespect, they were not likely the only people around at the time who could do what they did. Shelby was the only one who approached AC and Ford with a persuasive idea.

All things considered, I believe that Shelby wanted something real bad and he amassed the team and the resources to make it happen.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Maybe the original question should have been, "Other than Carroll Shelby, who was..."

[SunDude]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

Maybe the original question should have been, "Other than Carroll Shelby, who was..."

Maybe...but then again, only half of voters have chosen him so far...

[cobra25]

Has to be Ken Miles.

Shelby had an idea for the Cobra, Ken developed it into a winner.
Shelby wanted to build a 427 Cobra, Ken developed it into a winner.

Ford wanted Shelby to race the new Mustang, Ken developed it into a winner.

Shelby and Brock wanted to design a car to beat Ferrari, Ken developed it into a winner

Ford wanted Shelby to race a GT-40 and you guessed it, Ken developed it into a winner.

Sure, there were a lot of great drivers, mechanics and manufacturers during this time. But, if you had to pick one guy, it has to be Ken Miles.
If you are still not convinced just ask Carroll Shelby.
I honestly think if Miles had worked for Duntov, history might have been a little different.

[mdross1]

It has always been a colaboration,between Ken miles,and others who drove the cars,and the king pin Mr.Shelby.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

It would never had happened without Shelby.

[PDHse]

In my view Ken Miles was the man who was the "most important role in the Cobras early sucess".Obviously the Cobra was Carroll Shelbys idea and he got the ball rolling but as the thread title asks it has to be Miles.
Besides money a car has to be developed and from what i have read in all the books out there Ken Miles tested, tested and tested those cars until they were winners.

Its the same recently with Michael Schumacher with his years at Ferrari, he tested all the time when other drivers were taking holidays.

[somedayaurora]

It's called a Shelby Cobra ain't it .
SDR
________
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[khansmith]

the catylst was Mr. Shelby. he had the concept and he pulled in the right people. This is what makes a good CEO today: a vision and the know-how to make it happen by organizing people and assets. I am NOT a fan of Mr. Shelby's recent behavior but I have to give props when they are due.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by somedayaurora

It's called a Shelby Cobra ain't it .
SDR

A GTO is a GM But GM had nothing to do with it.It was Delorean,Estes & Knudsen that made it a legend.

[Buzz]

Actually old man Enzo was the REal man behind the GTO. All the others, including the folks at Pontiac were a bunch of piggybackers.

[Steve Cassani]

Alan Turner

Rinsey Mills, AC Cobra-The truth Behind theAnglo-American Legend- tells of Turner's role in the organization. Mills' account of Turner's continuing work to modify the Tojeiro chassis to accept a variety of engines leaves me convinced that the Hurlock brothers accepted Shelby's proposal on the strength of Turner's assurance that installing a 221 cubic inch 3.6 litres), compact V8 would be just another step, not differing in any important respect from the changes he had successfuly engineered since 1953. Keep in mind here that the Hurlocks were nearly bankrupt. Had Turner foreseen a need to modify the chassis in ways that did not build on what he had already achieved, the resulting added cost of redesign and manufacture would have killed the project.

At the time of Shelby's first visit to AC, the company had an inventory of chassis', suspension parts and all the other stuff, anticipating continued production of the Bristol and Rudspeed Ace. None of these bits could be tossed out, nor could any be modified, short of what the company had done to accomodate the Bristol engine. Suppliers, too, were locked in and some were disputing untimely payments for work already delivered to AC.

Turner assured the owners of AC that Shelby had a new idea which offerred a familiar and easily accomodated approach to continuing production, the sort of thing the company had managed sucessfully since they bought the original chassis design. Had Turner determined a need for heavier guage chassis tubes or a truly independent suspension, the Hurlocks would have had no choice but to defer to their engineer's advice and thank Shelby for his interest in the company.

[CBattaglia]

Carroll had the foresight to hire a guy like Ken Miles and assemble a winning team. He may have achieved his goals with another team?? (not to take away anything form Miles of course).

When you are the boss, you are only as good as the people you have around you.