[Dangerous poll #2] Who played the most important role in the Cobra?

[CBattaglia]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

A GTO is a GM But GM had nothing to do with it.It was Delorean,Estes & Knudsen that made it a legend.

Cobrabill - That picture of Hillary is disturbing. But, depicts her dead nutz!!

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Actually old man Enzo was the REal man behind the GTO. All the others, including the folks at Pontiac were a bunch of piggybackers.

You sir,would be in-correct.

Originally Posted by CBattaglia

Cobrabill - That picture of Hillary is disturbing. But, depicts her dead nutz!!

Isan't it? Thanks

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

You sir,would be in-correct.

How so brother Billy? I made a jesting reference to the original Ferarri GTO after which the Poncho was named. Are ya saying Enzo was not responsible for the original or did you just take my lil' jest too seriously?

BTW - the old avatar gave me the willies, but it was better than the mugshot of Billary.

[Blas]

Shelby himself is quoted as saying that Ken Miles did the most to develop the Cobra into what it is...From an old Autoweek interview, back when his infamous lost and forgotten "AIR" chassis were about to go into production.

[Cobra Lite]

All who have posted have expressed good reasons why their choice is the one most important to the creation of the car we love. So...

Another way of looking at it is, which one could have not been involved and by their absence, would have killed the car from ever being developed?

But even with that you have to be reasonable as so many factors came together at the right time to make the end result happen.
We could say, "what if CS's father never met his wife...?"

AC had already installed Ford engines (6 cyl) in the ACE as well as selling several rolling chassis to the builder of the limited run of CORVACE cars that used Corvette V8 engines and were sold in the US. (The fact that CS raced against one in '59 has been discussed in other threads) So, if CS had not been able to get Ford to front the money to buy the rolling chassis cars he would then get Miles to develop into a race car, would he have given up? Not likely in my mind, CS is a salesman and a very good one, he would have gone to Dodge and then to anyone else to build "his" car.

Just imagine the Cobra with a Renault engine!
Ok, probably not, but a hemi would have been fun.

If CS had been unable to find anyone with deep pockets and a suitable V8 willing to invest in him and he had to give up on the plan, would someone else have had the same idea? What if the builder of the CORVACE had hired Ken Miles to help with developing and driving the car? So many what if's...

AC ACE's were competing in the US with a variety of engines and doing very well. I believe it was just a very fortuitous situation that made it all come together, but it is the beauty of the ACE shape that AC modified to fit the bigger and bigger tires that became available that made the car the memorable vehicle it is. The race success it achieved is due to Miles and Remington development and so many great drivers.

So, who do I vote for as the most important?
All of the above were important to the final outcome but I do believe that another person could have stepped into CS shoes and achieved the same results. He was the catalyst, but not indispensable. So I vote for Miles as the most important role

[Historybuff]

When Shelby brought the first prototype to Dearborn
and presented it to a few Ford brass, it was Lee Iacocca
who was impressed with his zeal and said "yes" and got him the first
$25,000 which allowed Shelby to order car no. 2. So although all the other people were important, without Ford's backing the Cobra would have been a one off car. Iacocca eventually got so much publicity re the Mustang success (cover of TIME magazine, etc.) that Henry Ford II summoned him to his office and fired him on the spot

[YerDugliness]

I am NOT a fan of ol' Shel.....think he's a liar and a con-artist who had a good idea, although not an original one, as people were doing engine swaps LONG before Shelby dreamed up the idea of putting a small Ford V-8 into a Brittish sports car. However, without Shelby's "dream" and con-man work to get that first one to Iacocca, there would never have been that "yes" answer.

I hate to give credit for ANYTHING to Shelby, wish he and his lawsuits against various replica manufacturers and associated websites would just GO AWAY (that's a nicer way to put it than "Eat #### and Die", isn't it?), but in this case IMHO he deserves the credit for putting the effort into the whole sham--turned out pretty well for him, didn't it?

Cheers from Dugly

[modified]

I have to say that I played the most important role in my original cobra success (original because mine is the first that I've built)(Success because I finished it)

[twobjshelbys]

Shelby was a manager. Well, OK, he was a pretty good driver, but later turned to direction of others of his vision. There have been a few visionaries that managed to pull off. I'd put him up with Kelly Johnson and Fred Brooks. More of our presidents should surround themselves with people like Shelby (and Johnson) did.

[parhen4]

Originally Posted by Igofastr

Despite my personal distaste for the man's recent behaviour, Shelby was the key in getting the whole thing moving.

Without Carroll, Ken Miles is still driving his MG specials around SoCal. Without Carroll, none of the parties that got together to develope the Cobra into what it became would have met.

Shelby didn't build the car, he didn't design the car, and he didn't race the car. But he did make it happen.

In my opinion the Cobra would not have become a production car without Dean Moon and his crew.Shelby knew nothing about fabrication or mechanics, and installing the Ford 221 in the AC chassis was done by Moon. And the first test driver was Billy Krause who took the car out with Wire Wheels that flexed 6 inches in turn nine at Riverside, but gave back the feedback that was needed. And Dave Mcdonald who was the best driver ever in a Cobra in my opinion.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

I am NOT a fan of ol' Shel.....think he's a liar and a con-artist who had a good idea, although not an original one, as people were doing engine swaps LONG before Shelby dreamed up the idea of putting a small Ford V-8 into a Brittish sports car. However, without Shelby's "dream" and con-man work to get that first one to Iacocca, there would never have been that "yes" answer.

I hate to give credit for ANYTHING to Shelby, wish he and his lawsuits against various replica manufacturers and associated websites would just GO AWAY (that's a nicer way to put it than "Eat #### and Die", isn't it?), but in this case IMHO he deserves the credit for putting the effort into the whole sham--turned out pretty well for him, didn't it?

Cheers from Dugly

Think about it this way. If Shelby hadn't done it, would this place exist today? NOT. The rest of it is an episode of Survivor. And the Cobra would be a Berkeley.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Shelby was a manager. Well, OK, he was a pretty good driver, but later turned to direction of others of his vision. There have been a few visionaries that managed to pull off. I'd put him up with Kelly Johnson and Fred Brooks. More of our presidents should surround themselves with people like Shelby (and Johnson) did.

Talented people Shelby hired: Peter Brock - #1. Ken Miles, Bob Bondurant, Phil Remington, Dan Gurney.

[BT SNAKE]

I have met Mr Shelby and he was very polite. He stood and talked to me about cars and Vietnam. He noticed I was a Marine from a pin I wore. Even still I disagree with his viewpoint on the replica industry as a whole. My viewpoint says that Mr. Shelby would be nothing more than a footnote in the annals of racing history if it weren't for replicas. Arntzs, Butler, and Contemporary. These replicas brought forth the industry we know today.
They kept the fires burning.
After ten years or so more manufacturers started making replicas of the Cobra. Now this is where someone in the Shelby camp gets an idea because they see potential here. Suddenly there's a bunch of original old frames stored at the Goodyear dealership owned by Mr. Shelby. We all know that didn't work out too well. So what's the next step? Let's start a law suit. It took three years but that didn't work legally but it did cause Ford to look at the COBRA ownership of copyrighted material. When you have friends in high places you can get a few favors.
I also seriously doubt that Ford would have built the retro cobras and GT's if it wasn't for the replica popularity. Now a days Mr.Shelby endorses several replicas because it's big money when his name is affiliated with the product. He is back in good graces at Ford thus the Shelby Mustangs are back. So now he has what he wanted. Things have settled down a bit but replicas will continue and maybe one day before he passes he may acknowledge the replica industry for their part in reactivating the Shelby mystic and popularity of one of his ole race cars. (I won't hold my breath)

Just my opinion.
For some reason I still like the ole chicken farmer. SWR

Hersh

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Think about it this way. If Shelby hadn't done it, would this place exist today? NOT. The rest of it is an episode of Survivor. And the Cobra would be a Berkeley.

Yep, Tony......I agree. Like I said, as much as I hate to give ol' Shel credit for it, I ended up voting for him in the poll. It was his "intellectual property" long before that became a legal concept.....it was his idea and he lied to both Ford and A/C to get the parts to make the first Cobras, lied to the press and had finished cars repainted so that it would look like he had completed more than he actually had. If he were trying to run his business that way today, he'd probably be sued by the Attorneys General of every state in which he worked.

In the end, though, without the idea (who knows, maybe others were toying with the same combo, too), this forum and the entire Cobra (and, perhaps, replicar) industry might well not exist. Have to give him some credit, as much as I hate to do so. He got my vote......damnit !

Cheers from Doug

[boxhead]

I reckon it was the Doctor that told Shelby he can not drive anymore.
If he had not diagnosed the heart problem, Shelby may have crashed and died (no Cobra's) or he may have raced for another year or more (then ac would have been gone and he would have to look at another supplier of vehicles) (Also Ford may have had there own program running to compete against GM)

So if it was not for the Doctor and his diagnosis, the Cobra as we know and love it would either not exist, or be a totaly different beast.

[Dan Stryffeler]

Rats,

Boxhead - you beat me to the forum with the doctor answer... So instead I voted for Lee Iacocca; he wrote the checks that made it possible, (actually I kinda look at everyone as links on a bicycle chain, if single link doesn't work, the bike doesn't move).

Maybe the question should have been broken into two separate questions; 1) who played the most important role in making the street Cobra a success? and 2) who played the most important role in making the race cars a success?

Shelby wanted to go racing and the only reason for the street cars were to fund the race effort.

- Dan

[CobraDan]

I sure have to agree with Hersh on this one. As far as the originals go all of the above poll names had something to do with the originals, but in the near end Shelby could not give away the last of his 427 original cobras. With Factory Five who actually came into the cobra replica game late and now into production numbers in the 7,000 range, bring me to believe that known of us would be sitting around typing anything about a cobra if it wasn’t for the replica industry.

[Marvin]

Ford, they needed the racing exposure.

[Alan P.]

Briggs Cunningham for inspiring him, and David Brown, owner of Aston Martin, for giving him a chance to race and win the 24 hrs of LeMans in 1959. Without that win, he would never have had the authoritative voice or opportunity to launch the Cobra project.

[HealeyRick]

OK, I'll throw a really off the wall one here ... Sydney Allard. Sydney more or less invented the big American V8 into the British sports car formula and CS drove this Cad-Allard in 1952:



Check out the motor:



Shelby probably developed the best and most famous British-American hybrid, but he didn't invent the idea.