Oil change and other changes

Gunner · #1 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 04:50 PM

So I finally got around to the oil change that's been due since I got 707 - had to mount the oil thermostat and then get the remote filter bracket powder coated, and I only wanted to remove the oil filter etc. one time.

Went from some pretty old and black (2500 miles) Castrol 10W-50 to Castrol 5W-30, with a Wix filter. Eleven freakin' quarts!

Drove around for half an hour and noticed some interesting things. First, the oil temp started rising much earlier - there have been times I've warmed it and driven it for 15 minutes without a nudge in oil temp. It also continued to rise steadily, right past the 70* former high to 80* and then briefly to 80+. I actually got it warm enough to get some circulation through the cooler.

Oil pressure stayed good, perhaps 5 psi lower at cruise RPMs (55-60 instead of 60-65) even when hot. Idle pressure is actually higher, stable at 20 psi instead of dipping a little below 20 when hot.

I can't quite figure out how fresh, slightly thinner oil would heat so much faster and to 10-12 degrees higher than I could ever get the prior load. This was all street driving, BTW, not even any highway time.

Oh, and then I look under the hood and find I have a small fuel leak, right off the pump. Bleah. About one drip per second and it stops in a minute or two. Next on the list...

Jerry Clayton · #2 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 05:03 PM

oil thermostat

patrickt · #3 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 05:31 PM

How do you manage to get eleven quarts in there?

Gunner · #4 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 05:38 PM

Helefino. Canton pan, remote filter, cooler. I put a quart in the filter and put 5 quarts in the pan. No show. Two more quarts, it shows "Add 2." I run the engine a few minutes, add 2 quarts, run it again... still showing below "Add 1." I add the last one and let it go for now. Will check when it's cooled and stood a while. Actually, it has... hold on...

Oops. I'm up about a quart. A little drain is in order tomorrow. I should have waited a little longer after the second engine run, I think.

Jerry, the thermo has been on there for a while without having much of an effect. It might be because it's slightly overfilled.

patrickt · #5 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

Helefino. Canton pan, remote filter, cooler. I put a quart in the filter and put 5 quarts in the pan. No show. Two more quarts, it shows "Add 2." I run the engine a few minutes, add 2 quarts, run it again... still showing below "Add 1." I add the last one and let it go for now. Will check when it's cooled and stood a while. Actually, it has... hold on...

Oops. I'm up about a quart. A little drain is in order tomorrow. I should have waited a little longer after the second engine run, I think.

Canton pan, remote filter, cooler... 8.5 quarts.

Gunner · #6 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 07:54 PM

Lemme see how much I drain but I'm pretty sure it will be a quart or less, leaving 10-10+. I didn't even drain the cooler - wish I could figure out a clean way to do so.

CobraEd · #7 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 08:01 PM

Oil is getting hot faster than before because it is up to the bottom of the pistons !!!

.

patrickt · #8 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobraEd

Oil is getting hot faster than before because it is up to the bottom of the pistons !!!

Eleven quarts... yeah, that's about two fingers above the windage tray.

Perhaps the "churning effect" creates additional heat. That's a lot easier than blocking off the oil cooler during the winter.

Got the Bug · #9 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Canton pan, remote filter, cooler... 8.5 quarts.

Same setup (not an FE). My Windsor normally takes ~9 quarts. Gunner must have the "super duper" FE that requires additional oil.

Gunner · #10 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Eleven quarts... yeah, that's about two fingers above the windage tray.

It's about .8 quarts above the upper SAFE line, so I don't think it's that high. Probably just high enough that the slop into the cylinders got things hot faster. I'll know tomorrow when I pull a quart back out and see how the level (and temp) goes.

CobraEd · #11 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 09:04 PM

So, you are only 30% over. 8 1/2 vs 11. . . . . A super genious.

.

patrickt · #12 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 09:15 PM

Well it's not a big deal. Just drain off two quarts. But I'd double check the calibration of your dip stick. An oil change with your set up that takes 9 quarts or more is suspect.

RedBarchetta · #13 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

Oil pressure...Idle pressure is actually higher, stable at 20 psi instead of dipping a little below 20 when hot

I can't believe no one else brought this up.

Gunner, how long has your motor been running a 20 psi (or less) oil pressure at IDLE? And what is your idle set at? As a general rule of thumb, you need 10psi for every 1,000 rpm, and at a 1,000 rpm idle a healthy motor should show around 40psi. You are half that, which concerns me that your bearings are showing wear.

I had this condition (lost oil pressure and suddenly had hot idle around 20-25). Pulled the pan and a couple main caps and I was showing some brass on the bearings. All crank journals looked good, so I swapped out the crankshaft bearings (with motor in the car) and also did the connecting rod bearings while I had it all apart. For insurance added a new oil pump (I think I sucked in some slag from my oil cooler and that scored the bearings). This fixed my problem and I now have excellent oil pressure.

-Dean

CobraEd · #14 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

All crank journals looked good, so I swapped out the crankshaft bearings (with motor in the car) and also did the connecting rod bearings while I had it all apart.

It is viewed as such a major thing to have wear on the bottom end, but like you, I always felt that it was no big deal to just pop in new bearings with the engine right in the car. a 2 hr job at best.

.

ratsnst1 · #15 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

I can't believe no one else brought this up.

Gunner, how long has your motor been running a 20 psi (or less) oil pressure at IDLE? And what is your idle set at? As a general rule of thumb, you need 10psi for every 1,000 rpm, and at a 1,000 rpm idle a healthy motor should show around 40psi. You are half that, which concerns me that your bearings are showing wear.

I had this condition (lost oil pressure and suddenly had hot idle around 20-25). Pulled the pan and a couple main caps and I was showing some brass on the bearings. All crank journals looked good, so I swapped out the crankshaft bearings (with motor in the car) and also did the connecting rod bearings while I had it all apart. For insurance added a new oil pump (I think I sucked in some slag from my oil cooler and that scored the bearings). This fixed my problem and I now have excellent oil pressure.

-Dean

I thought you could only do stuff like that on big rig trucks, I did a inframe on one of my kenworth trucks I had, but on a cobra, but I guess so, very cool.

Gunner · #16 (**permalink**) 02-13-2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

But I'd double check the calibration of your dip stick. An oil change with your set up that takes 9 quarts or more is suspect.

*shrug*. I'm assuming the stick is correct - it was showing low in the SAFE range since I've had it and had not changed measurably in 500+ miles. Never any of the signs of low or high oil level.

Unless I'm grossly misreading things, I'm only about a quart-minus over, so yes, it took 10 quarts. I'll measure off a quart tomorrow and see. I was in a hurry and should have given it a few more minutes before adding that last quart.

Red, I appreciate the concern but I don't see any sign of oil pressure problems. I don't think I've ever had a motor that pushed 40psi at 800-900 idle, hot. Maybe 30. A steady 20-22 is what I've seen as typical. Pressure jumps straight to 60 (hot) by 2500 RPM and stays there, dropping only about 10 psi from the cold max of 70 or so. I don't, and never have run high-pressure pumps, though. This is a near-OEM spec Melling. Remember, I have a fairly mild mill in 707.

Silverback51 · #17 (**permalink**) 02-14-2010, 05:01 AM

Have you looked at the Canton site to see what the oil capacity is of that pan?

I just did a quick search of their site and the largest capacity they had for a FE engine was 8 quarts.

patrickt · #18 (**permalink**) 02-14-2010, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverback51

Have you looked at the Canton site to see what the oil capacity is of that pan?

I just did a quick search of their site and the largest capacity they had for a FE engine was 8 quarts.

He probably has the Canton 15-820. Gunner, just drain your oil, put seven quarts in, mark your stick, put another quart in, mark your stick again, and those are your "FULL" and "ADD" marks. On your oil pressure, I remember the clearances on your FE's build and they were pretty healthy. A hot idle pressure in the upper teens for your FE is perfectly acceptable provided your pressure rises quickly with the RPMs. Non-FE guys don't believe this (and Rick Lake always argues against it as well), but it's absolutely, you-can-take-it-to-the-bank, true. I won't even tell you what the minimum PSI at idle for an FE was in the Ford Shop Manual because you wouldn't believe me.

392cobra · #19 (**permalink**) 02-14-2010, 08:06 AM

Unless Canton has changed,their capacity numbers include 1 qt. for a filter.

7 in the pan + 1 for filter = 8 qts.

patrickt · #20 (**permalink**) 02-14-2010, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 392cobra

Unless Canton has changed,their capacity numbers include 1 qt. for a filter.

7 in the pan + 1 for filter = 8 qts.

You might be right on that -- they call it "system capacity" and they've changed their site so I can't find the PDF that they used to have entitled "How to Mark Your Dipstick."