Seat Belt / Harness upgrade

twobjshelbys · #1 (**permalink**) 03-23-2010, 09:29 PM

I want to upgrade my seat belt/harnesses. The adjustment for the lap belts that are in the car is low to the floor and behind the seats - making it very difficult to adjust them, especially for "guests".

The shoulder harnesses for the passenger side are also mounted on the floor and go from the floor up and over the back of the seat. This makes them want to fall to the side. I can criss-cross them so that the X will be behind the seat and that should keep them from crossing. But the adjustment for these is also very hard to get at.

The driver's side harnesses were missing when I got the car and I haven't replaced them. I have a roll-bar mount but need harnesses with clips.

I've looked at Summit and at the Simpson site but am not sure exactly what to get.

Any recommendations? Photos of installs would be nice too.

Thanks!

mickmate · #2 (**permalink**) 03-24-2010, 04:44 AM

I just fitted Simpsons to a car and put bezels in the rear bulkhead and wrapped the shoulder harnesses around the rear cowl hoop. It puts them at a perfect height for these cars. Doug is putting some in his now the same way. He is getting these from Finishline http://www.finishlineaccessories.com...roducts_id=227 they are the same as the Simpsons without the writing on them I'm told.

dcdoug · #3 (**permalink**) 03-24-2010, 06:34 AM

I am following Nicks lead for installation, just going with the finishline belts for an original style look, which works better for my car. I spoke with Enzo at finishline and asked how the safety rating of his belts compared to Simpson and he said the belts were the same, his just doesn't have any logos. I'll post pics when I get them done, but that won't be for a few weeks.

twobjshelbys · #4 (**permalink**) 03-24-2010, 09:14 AM

I looked into cutting into the trunk area and connecting to the tube that goes across, but it doesn't seem like it is strong enough to support anything. The roll bar connection on the drivers side is strong enough but the passenger would not be. I suppose in a real crash it is a moot point anyway.

These belts also look to have the adjustments close to the floor which is what I'm trying to get away from.

I have another hint as to build time of the car - the drivers side belts expired at the end of 2009.

mickmate · #5 (**permalink**) 03-24-2010, 09:32 AM

Your car doesn't have the 1 1/2" tube across the back of the cockpit?

dcdoug · #6 (**permalink**) 03-24-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickmate

Your car doesn't have the 1 1/2" tube across the back of the cockpit?

I would think we all have the same tube as these are all CSX cars and I seriously doubt any of the 4000/6000 series cars are any different in this regard.

twobjshelbys · #7 (**permalink**) 03-24-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcdoug

I would think we all have the same tube as these are all CSX cars and I seriously doubt any of the 4000/6000 series cars are any different in this regard.

No, it is behind the trunk wall. I seriously doubt it is 1.5" dia but I will measure tonight.

P.S. My batteries (2x6V) are behind the passenger seat.

dcdoug · #8 (**permalink**) 03-24-2010, 04:21 PM

My batteries are behind the passenger seat too as I believe are Nicks.

damdfw · #9 (**permalink**) 03-24-2010, 05:34 PM

I'm with Doug on this one. My bar is 1 1/2" and runs across behind the trunk wall. If you eyeball/grab it, it should be the same diameter as your roll bar. BTW my batteries (2x6) are behind my passenger seat.

mickmate · #10 (**permalink**) 03-24-2010, 09:02 PM

The bezels are offset to the rollbar and center pretty nicely on the seat back. Most importantly is that they are a good height.

I am lucky enough to have my own trunk monkey to fit inside the trunk and wrap and thread the straps around the tube.

twobjshelbys · #11 (**permalink**) 03-24-2010, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

No, it is behind the trunk wall. I seriously doubt it is 1.5" dia but I will measure tonight.

P.S. My batteries (2x6V) are behind the passenger seat.

The tube going across the inside back of the trunk is about 4 3/8" in circumference which makes it about 1.4" diameter. (I just used a sewing tape to measure it.) It's more than I want to try to do tonight to measure vertical position but it is probably close to the location in the previous reply.

twobjshelbys · #12 (**permalink**) 07-20-2010, 07:35 AM

I pulled the passenger seat and harnesses. I think the setup is a little unorthodox for the shoulder harnesses (they mount to the floor) and I'm going to leave them that way instead of trying to cut into the back. I'm switching from Simpson to G-Force since GF has a floor mount shoulder harness setup.

In fact, the G-Force belts have loops on all ends, so I'm switching the bolt down mounts to eye-bolts all around and going with clipped connectors. Next time I won't have to pull bolts to change them. I also switched the lap belts to "pull down" so I don't have to reach behind the seat to adjust. It was OK for me but the passenger side always had to be adjusted and it was a PITA to get to the mounts.

Now for the sub belt. Mine did not have them installed, and I don't see a reinforced location to mount them. All the other points have pre-drilled holes in the frame. I don't have a lift so can't get underneath but just feeling around I didn't see a place. Has anyone with a CSX installed the sub belt and where did you mount it?

Note this is a CSX. I guess I could ask Tony at SA.

DANGER · #13 (**permalink**) 07-20-2010, 11:28 AM

On my SPF the upper cross member is pre-drilled from the factory. And the fiberglass wall behind the seat is also pre-cut for belts. All I had to do was remove the rear tires and find the pre-cut slit. I used a razor blade and cut the carpet. Than bolted down the harness and poof done in one hour. This included removing the seats to install the proper hardware for the lap belts....

REMEMBER - You do not want to mount the shoulder harness to the floor... This would cause spinal compression during an accident... The top of the mounting should be no lower than 2" below you shoulders...

Happy Wrenching..

twobjshelbys · #14 (**permalink**) 07-20-2010, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DANGER

On my SPF the upper cross member is pre-drilled from the factory. And the fiberglass wall behind the seat is also pre-cut for belts. All I had to do was remove the rear tires and find the pre-cut slit. I used a razor blade and cut the carpet. Than bolted down the harness and poof done in one hour. This included removing the seats to install the proper hardware for the lap belts....

REMEMBER - You do not want to mount the shoulder harness to the floor... This would cause spinal compression during an accident... The top of the mounting should be no lower than 2" below you shoulders...

Happy Wrenching..

Regrettably the passenger shoulders are on the floor (actually on the back seat mounting bolts). There are no holes for mounting them on the CSX. There is a tube that runs across the back of the trunk but (1) I'm not adventurous right now to start cutting through aluminum and carpet, and (2) I'm not sure the frame is really strong enough. Also, the drivers side are connected to the roll bar and I suspect there may have been a reason for it. In any case, redesigning is a winter project.

DANGER · #15 (**permalink**) 07-20-2010, 01:08 PM

I know the upper frame rail is stronger than the seat bracket. I would contact your dealer, although mine wasn't very helpful... Superformance was very helpful and told me exactly where to look for the pre-drill / slit mounts. Does Hi-Tech still make the rollers for Shelby??

You could check by just removing the rear tires they might have them already drilled..

I would not feel safe having someone ride with a floor mounted shoulder harness.

Just my .2 cents..

twobjshelbys · #16 (**permalink**) 07-20-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DANGER

I know the upper frame rail is stronger than the seat bracket. I would contact your dealer, although mine wasn't very helpful... Superformance was very helpful and told me exactly where to look for the pre-drill / slit mounts. Does Hi-Tech still make the rollers for Shelby??

You could check by just removing the rear tires they might have them already drilled..

I would not feel safe having someone ride with a floor mounted shoulder harness.

Just my .2 cents..

This is a HST manufactured carbon fiber roller. I still need to email Tony at SA.

Can you post a pic of where the access is? I've had the tires off and didn't see anything but then I wasn't necessarily looking for it.

twobjshelbys · #17 (**permalink**) 07-21-2010, 08:53 AM

Well, this is a dilemma. I have been advised by a very trustworthy Cobra source AGAINST shoulder harnesses for the passenger side unless there is a roll bar. The assertion is that in case of a rollover the passenger will be upright, and thus, become a support for the passenger side of the vehicle against the ground. I've thought of this and always wondered about the pros/cons vs a front/rear end collision and support. He's pretty adamant.

He also says that the bar behind the seats in the trunk is NOT adequate for mounting shoulder harnesses and that the proper way is a roll-bar mounted setup (which mine has on the driver side).

I've sent a query to a couple of real experts who've driven these cars (in some pretty famous races) since the 60's. We'll see if he responds. One of them is local.

DANGER · #18 (**permalink**) 07-21-2010, 11:43 AM

This mounting was not dreamt up by myself.. These upgrades came from Hi-Tech, they are the MFG. Hillbank/Superformance told me where to look for installation.

If you were to look at the upper cross member you would notice it attached to the shock mount and part of the cars frame.. Now I can't imagine Hi-Tech Superformance putting these pre/cut drilled belt mountings in their roller unless they were safe??

I do know that I would want the passenger to have shoulder harness in case of a front end collision, unless you want their face in the dash/windshield. As far as a roll over I also think the harness would help them stay in the seat.. If you were going fast enough for a roll over a helmet might help also

I have no pictures, Look above the shock mounts with tires off, you can see through to the other side of the car. In the SPF there are (2) cross members a lower and upper. These are both part of the cars frame. The top one has a 2"-3" slit in the fiberglass about centered with the seat backs. And a 1/2" hole is drill through the frame. You will need a "Y" harness I chose Simpson cam lock works great. (some tracks will not allow this). But it was more of a safety issue with me...

Hopes this helps..

twobjshelbys · #19 (**permalink**) 07-21-2010, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DANGER

This mounting was not dreamt up by myself.. These upgrades came from Hi-Tech, they are the MFG. Hillbank/Superformance told me where to look for installation.

If you were to look at the upper cross member you would notice it attached to the shock mount and part of the cars frame.. Now I can't imagine Hi-Tech Superformance putting these pre/cut drilled belt mountings in their roller unless they were safe??

I do know that I would want the passenger to have shoulder harness in case of a front end collision, unless you want their face in the dash/windshield. As far as a roll over I also think the harness would help them stay in the seat.. If you were going fast enough for a roll over a helmet might help also

I have no pictures, Look above the shock mounts with tires off, you can see through to the other side of the car. In the SPF there are (2) cross members a lower and upper. These are both part of the cars frame. The top one has a 2"-3" slit in the fiberglass about centered with the seat backs. And a 1/2" hole is drill through the frame. You will need a "Y" harness I chose Simpson cam lock works great. (some tracks will not allow this). But it was more of a safety issue with me...

Hopes this helps..

I have no doubt that Hi-Tech is putting in this "connection". I guess now I'd like to see engineering data that supports this usage model.

I'm just doubtful of it's contribution to the real safety of the occupants. As you can see in previous photos, and as I see in shows everywhere, almost all are connecting their harnesses to a cross member that is probably not adequately fortified to take a 10Gx200lb load.

Another choice is to replace the seats with high back seats with access ports at shoulder height. These will accommodate the floor mount harnesses as the downward pressure is on the seat.

DANGER · #20 (**permalink**) 07-21-2010, 01:49 PM

Just how I installed the belts. It was easy straight forward, and I feel safer than lap belts alone.

I could be wrong but the factory is setting themself up for a lawsuit if the frame cross member is not strong enough for mounting?? If I remember it's 3" x 1/8" square tube and acts as 1 of 2 cross supports for the rear up rights of the car..

You might want to check out just what your seats are mounted to floor with, I was very surprised...

If were going to put hi-back racing buckets in a "period correct car" we might as well put a full racing roll cage in also..

Happy Racing