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03-28-2010, 05:18 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,011
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excaliber
,,,IRS is clearly superior in my experience.
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OK, everyone pile on Ernie now for a change.  |
03-28-2010, 05:20 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 15,712
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Not Ranked
Balls of iron here, I've been kicked around this place for so long I went numb a long time ago. 
When considering the question of an open diff vs a limited slip diff of ANY style the question is barely worth a response of any kind. The answer is obvious. Now the merits of what is going to house that LSD is a worthy debate, IRS or Solid?
Last edited by Excaliber; 03-28-2010 at 05:23 PM..
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03-28-2010, 05:27 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,330
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excaliber
Balls of iron here, I've been kicked around this place for so long I went numb a long time ago.
When considering the question of an open diff vs a limited slip diff of ANY style the question is barely worth a response of any kind. The answer is obvious. Now the merits of what is going to house that LSD is a worthy debate, IRS or Solid? |
ummmmm... he mentioned he was going IRS.  |
03-28-2010, 05:35 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,011
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by TButtrick
ummmmm... he mentioned he was going IRS. |
I think Ernie was opening the debate on the housing that holds the LSD/IRS/Solid, be it aluminum, steel, balsa wood, etc.  |
03-28-2010, 05:40 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sacramento,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 707, 446ci FE
Posts: 1,115
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Not Ranked
The issues with a solid rear axle in something Mustang-sized are quite different from those in a Cobra. A lot of the problem with a live axle in a Cobra is the very short wheelbase- with only 90 inches to work with, the distance from the tailhousing of the tranny and the nose of the differential is a foot or less. That doesn't permit much movement of the differential relative to the chassis, limiting the overall travel of the rear end. Little travel, little compliance, big magnification of hop and chatter and stiff spring issues.
My Mustang has a driveshaft some four feet long - meaning rear end travel can be substantial, and is, and that goes a long ways towards ameliorating the problems.
There are places to save money on a Cobra. Using a solid rear axle is not, IMVHO, a good place to do so.
__________________
= Si Opus Quadratum vis, angulos praecidere noli. =
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03-28-2010, 05:44 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,011
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner
The issues with a solid rear axle in something Mustang-sized are quite different from those in a Cobra. A lot of the problem with a live axle in a Cobra is the very short wheelbase- with only 90 inches to work with, the distance from the tailhousing of the tranny and the nose of the differential is a foot or less. That doesn't permit much movement of the differential relative to the chassis, limiting the overall travel of the rear end. Little travel, little compliance, big magnification of hop and chatter and stiff spring issues.
My Mustang has a driveshaft some four feet long - meaning rear end travel can be substantial, and is, and that goes a long ways towards ameliorating the problems.
There are places to save money on a Cobra. Using a solid rear axle is not, IMVHO, a good place to do so.
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Save your breath; they simply refuse to believe.  |
03-28-2010, 06:15 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,078
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Obviously Buttrick, Rod, Lykins and Ibrk8 have installed BS filters on their screens like mine. More authoritative BS from the master of internet pig-latin.
Man-am I enjoyin' this... 
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Chas.
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03-28-2010, 06:16 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sacramento,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 707, 446ci FE
Posts: 1,115
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt
Save your breath; they simply refuse to believe. |
*shrug* It's not a matter of believe. I was addressing the posting of pix of Mustangs as "proof" that live rear axles are oh-kay on a Cobra. Nothing like an utterly irrelevant cite to further a discussion.
Since this topic comes up periodically, I'm always amused at how long it can go on - and devolve into irrelevant asides and namecalling - without anyone pointing out the fundamental problem of a live axle in a car so short the driveshaft barely exists.
I'll paraphrase one of your regular comments: I don't recall any Cobra owner, ever, lamenting that he didn't choose a live axle for his build...
__________________
= Si Opus Quadratum vis, angulos praecidere noli. =
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03-28-2010, 06:18 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,011
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERA Chas
Obviously Buttrick, Rod, Lykins and Ibrk8 have installed BS filters on their screens like mine. More authoritative BS from the master of internet pig-latin.
Man-am I enjoyin' this... |
Damn, Chas. You just made me screw up a last minute snipe on Ebay.  |
03-28-2010, 06:24 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt
Damn, Chas. You just made me screw up a last minute snipe on Ebay. |
Shoot buddy-do I feel bad about that...
Go ahead anyway-  nobody pays attention to you there either.
__________________
Chas.
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03-28-2010, 06:28 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,011
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERA Chas
Shoot buddy-do I feel bad about that...
Go ahead anyway- nobody pays attention to you there either. |
Think how sad you'd be if you didn't have me to kick around.... |
03-28-2010, 06:31 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,330
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What the heck is "IMVHO"? "In My Vain Honest Opinion"?
"They" refuse to believe that you're actually reading the previous posts. There is absolutely nothing in the length of the drive shaft that is limiting travel of the rear vertically in a solid axle C***a. That has nothing to do with the advantages of IRS. Horizontal plane shifts are limited by lower control arms and bushings and/or 3/4/5 link setups. The advantages of IRS are simply that.. that they are independent on a horizontal plane from the other wheel and thus put more rubber on the road when cornering than solid axle. The hysterical inference of solid axles being dangerous or irresponsible in these cars is what I question. Nothing more, nothing less.
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03-28-2010, 06:48 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,011
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by TButtrick
There is absolutely nothing in the length of the drive shaft that is limiting travel of the rear vertically in a solid axle C***a. That has nothing to do with the advantages of IRS.
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Gunner is referring to "driveshaft angularity." No doubt he remembers this old post from an FFR forum that has been archived over at ERA. Note Mr. Dunn's post on it. http://www.erareplicas.com/ffdrvshf.htm#sdunn |
03-28-2010, 07:21 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 1,330
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I'll take this off-line so not to further distract from the meaning of this post.
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03-28-2010, 07:37 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,078
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by TButtrick
I'll take this off-line so not to further distract from the meaning of this post.
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Well it's a waste of your Sunday evening but while you've got him, ask him to restate for you his well know opinions of FFR aesthetics... 
__________________
Chas.
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03-28-2010, 07:39 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,011
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERA Chas
Well it's a waste of your Sunday evening but while you've got him, ask him to restate for you his well know opinions of FFR aesthetics... |
It's not me he's going off line with, I think it's Gunner. Dang, always a bridesmaid... Chas, care to opine on whether a shorter driveshaft limits vertical travel in a solid axle rear? C'mon, that's basic geometry; you know, radius, circles... |
03-28-2010, 08:06 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,078
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Nice try-another battle with The Scholar??? Made my bones with cam timing calculations. No more need for schoolboy geek fights. Find some one else who thinks you know something. 
I'm still wipin' the laugh tears away from this sage gem:
"A newbie experiencing solid axle torque steer in a Cobra is a just a newspaper story waiting to happen. Advising somebody not to get an IRS in these cars is irresponsible. Period."
But advising somebody to put in a pot metal, hardware store clutch fork rod is NOT irresponsible?? Hmmmm...
Why not teach your little geometry lessons to your #1 Son? Someday he'll inherit your car and IMMEDIATELY saw off one roll bar and then paint the beige red. Oh and put a MOTOR in it.
__________________
Chas.
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03-28-2010, 08:09 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,011
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERA Chas
Why not teach your little geometry lessons to your #1 Son? Someday he'll inherit your car and IMMEDIATELY saw off one roll bar and then paint the beige red. Oh and put a MOTOR in it. |
Naah, he wouldn't do that to the ol' man.... |
03-28-2010, 08:10 PM
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Backdraft Racing Dealer
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Haven,
CT
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft Racing
Posts: 5,122
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Not Ranked
I suppose some people are happy with just a lap belt, while it may cost more I will go for the 4 points in a Cobra.
As for the "open" vs. LSD question, I think the OP needs to narrow the responses a little by targeting this to the BDR forum. Seeing as how a stock BMW E36 differential would not equate to an "open" differential by 1960's Mustang 9" standards (or even 1979 Fox Mustang standards).
TB, I was just telling Ron the other day I would like you to drive our next demo car and see what you think ... especially since the MKIV proved a disappointment for you to stray |
03-28-2010, 08:22 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,011
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashburn
TB, I was just telling Ron the other day I would like you to drive our next demo car and see what you think ... especially since the MKIV proved a disappointment for you to stray |
I think he gave up and went to bed after the "driveshaft angularity" post. His "taking it off line" post was just clever misdirection.... |
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