How to tell certain engines

[blackbird1usa]

Hello, I'm new to this board but it looks cool. I'm looking at buying a cobra. but have a question. How can I tell what size an engine is. Are there certain identifiers for various engines. The other day I was looking at a cobra the guy said had a 514CID engine, hell, I don't know if it was or not, were there certain things I should have looked for. Like how can I tell an engine is a 302, 289, 351, 427 etc. Any suggestions would be helpful

[Excaliber]

We'll try to forget the early Y block series motors from Ford, 272, 292, 312. Early 1950's to early 1960's. Not much to say about them, other than there were a spectacular failure when it came to racing. Compared to the Chevy small block of the same era, the 265, 283, 327, it was downright embarrasing for Ford.

I'd begin by breaking the engines down into the "series" they represent. Examples:
The "Windsor" series, or family, of engines. 221, 260, 289, 302, 351. Early '60's going all the way into the 90's. This was the potent new engine weapon from Ford that powered the early Cobras to so many victories. Typically referred to as "small blocks", "tiny blocks", "miniscule blocks", etc. Then there is the "big block" series of motors, two (or more) families to consider here. The FE family and the 385 family. FE series, 331, 352, 390, 406, 427 and others. Late 1950's to mid 70's or so. Replacing the FE family was the 385 family, typically the 429 and 460 cubic inch motors.

Throw in an odd ball family here and there, like the Clevland engines. BIG heads, something unigue, not made very long. Some dogs among this group, some brilliant examples as well. 351C, excellent, 400M, a turkey. A little mix and match for spice, how about some Cleveland heads on a Windsor block? Enter the potent "Boss 302". Let's not leave out the legendary OHC engines either. Based primarily on the FE series with heads so big you could drive a truck through the ports!

The latest issue from Ford would be the "modular" engines. Typically the 4.6 OHC engines found in the Mustang. Include the 5.4 often found in the truck application but also a very nice "race" package in select Mustang models. Due to their large external dimensions these engines are not typically considered a good choice for a "hot rod" type application. Replica Cobras, 32 Deuce Coupes or whatever. They are small in cubic inches but LARGER externally than even a classic big block! All kinds of clearance issues trying to stuff one under the hood.

You could do the Google using the various series and families to see some pictures and get a better idea of the history and application of these engines.

Now when it comes to "odd ball" after market stuff, like a 347 or a 514 or what ever, yeah, it's a valid question. On WHAT series/family is that engine based? Some typical numbers for a modified Windsor family block might be 347 up to 427, which is just about the max cid this family will run. The new bored and stroked motors could be a 385 series or an FE series. Either way you can take these out to really BIG numbers! The FE style motor using a modern after market block (Shelby, Dove, others) is a typical example of a really BIG modern block in the 500 cubic inch range.

The Cleveland series motors are fairly rare, but enjoyed great success in Australia, a worthy opponent when it comes to making good horse power for their size. Typical application would be a "Pantera" car.

[Woodz428]

The 514 would be hard to determine externally...but they are based on the 429/460 engine. That has a thermostat housing that is parallel to the top of the intake that it attaches to. The Cleveland based engines( 351C,400&351M) are the only Ford engines that use a fuel pump pattern that is vertical, all others are horizontal. The FE engines have the unique feature, among the V8s, of having part of the intake make up the inner portion of the head, so it is partially covered by the inside of the valve covers. Most any of the others will Windsors. The easiest way to distinguish between the 351 and the smaller variants is at the dist hole. The 351W has about an inch rise between it and the front of the intake ledge. The smaller engines have it about even with it.
Now internal dimesions are pretty hard to determine without a cylinder test, like use at some race tracks or a partial disassembly. There are common sizes within the engine ranges, a 514 as you mentioned is based on the 385 series block( 429/460), 408s are common in the 351W block ans 342s are usually the 302 based engine. These are some of the common sizes and there are a veritable range that they can be. But again, externally, it is hard to distinguish sizes.
If they are built by a regular engine supplier they most likely will have some #s that were stamped and can be traced by that. Good luck.

[CobraEd]

Blue = Ford
Orange = Chevy
Metallic Gold = Oldsmobile
Red = Buick
Turquoise = Pontiac

Well there ya go !


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[elmariachi]

If lots of pretty women are standing around it saying "That makes me hot," then you know its an FE.

[Sharroll Celby]

Every time I try and tell my engines anything, it's like they have no ears!

[Rick Parker]

elmariachi: All the ones with the burns on their legs?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

elmariachi: All the ones with the burns on their legs?

No, the ones with oil stains on their shoes.

[Ralphy]

If someone is bragging on their motor, ask for receipts.

The FE big block is probably one of the easist motors to spot. The heads, intake and valve covers are very unique.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wi...7SO_webers.jpg

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

elmariachi: All the ones with the burns on their legs?

Yep, which is why I carry a tube of aloe. "Oh dang, did my snake bite ya? Here, let me rub a little creme on that for you..."

[CobraEd]

Originally Posted by Ralphy

If someone is bragging on their motor, ask for receipts.

The FE big block is probably one of the easist motors to spot. The heads, intake and valve covers are very unique.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wi...7SO_webers.jpg

Buick nail heads are the only engine with perfectly flat (horizonatal) valve covers http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/Da...1_Nailhead.jpg, and the Chevey 348 & 409 are the only engines with "W" shaped valve covers http://www.vintagehydroplanes.com/20...m_409chevy.jpg. Hemis are the only ones with plugs right in the center of the valve cover as opposed to down by the exhaust ports like all other engines http://www.bouchillonperformance.com...P5249667AC.jpg.

All major identifiers, just from the valve covers alone.


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[blackbird1usa]

Thanks Guy's - What doe FE mean

[DanEC]

I think it stands for Ford - Edsel. Edsel was the first model to use an FE engine I believe.

Dan

[rustyBob]

Fine Engine........for a Cobra....

[Excaliber]

F$&%ing Expensive


...actually that is a tough one, the debate rages on. Some say it's a Ford/Edsel, others say not. I know one thing for sure, MY name for it is very accurate.

I'm in the "Ford Engine" camp, like FT is a Ford Truck engine.

[nymathboy]

I say spend an afternoon in a bookstore. Read up on Ford engines. I enjoyed the history of the various engines so much that I bought most of them. Not to mention that if I forget something I can refer back to them.

[Ralphy]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

F$&%ing Expensive


...actually that is a tough one, the debate rages on. Some say it's a Ford/Edsel, others say not. I know one thing for sure, MY name for it is very accurate.

I'm in the "Ford Engine" camp, like FT is a Ford Truck engine.

F$&%ing Expensive,

[mdross1]

Just getting started? your in for an education.Time in the hobby will teach you all you need to know.As you have read most all engines have a specific family name or number.Fords like you are looking at 429/460, are from the 385 series.A 514 is a bored or stroked 385 series engine.Your doing the right thing by asking,without getting into detail outwardly you cannot tell what an engines real cubic inch is.Good Luck!

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by CobraEd

...

Hemis are the only ones with plugs right in the center of the valve cover as opposed to down by the exhaust ports like all other engines http://www.bouchillonperformance.com...P5249667AC.jpg.

All major identifiers, just from the valve covers alone.


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What about 427 SOHC or Boss 429?

[CobraEd]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

What about 427 SOHC or Boss 429?

yep!


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