FFR Cobra with a 4-lug bolt pattern???

[NCSNAKE]

Going to look at a FFR Cobra tonight but noitced in the pics that it has a 4-lug pattern on the wheels. Is this odd or something less than desirable?

Thanks!!

[blykins]

Typical for a FFR based on a donor Mustang. All of the Fox body cars were 4 lug, except for a few SVO Stangs.

There are Fox bodies running some fast 1/4's on 4 lugs, so unless it bothers you from an originality standpoint, I'd still take a look at it. You can always change to 5-lug later. It's not hard.

[CobraEd]

less unsprung weight

Actually, aside from looks, it makes no difference at all.


.

[NCSNAKE]

How critical do I need to be concerning donor car parts??? If the spindles/hubs are 4-bolt and the axles are 4-bolt does that make for a lesser car. I'm assuming that the FFR's come with much of their own frame and suspension pieces? Any guess to what the rear is hung with? I know it has discs and adjustable coil overs at all four corners. Rear end itself is a cobra racing piece with 3.55 gears. Tremec 5-speed trans and a fuel injected 5.0 with heads and cam.

[Silverback51]

The only thing I will mention is that they (the engineers) went with 4 lugs, as that was all that was necessary to handle the loads that the lugs would see on a Mustang.

If you start modifing the engine, suspension, and tires where you greatly increase those loads, you may have a problem.

[CobraEd]

Originally Posted by Silverback51

The only thing I will mention is that they (the engineers) went with 4 lugs, as that was all that was necessary to handle the loads that the lugs would see on a Mustang.

If you start modifing the engine, suspension, and tires where you greatly increase those loads, you may have a problem.

A Cobra is about 1,000lbs lighter than a Fox body Mustang.


.

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by CobraEd

A Cobra is about 1,000lbs lighter than a Fox body Mustang.


.

That is a static load. I'm talking about the dynamic loads the componets can see under acceleration, braking, and cornering.

It's true that the overall weight reduction will affect those loads, but there is a lot of difference between a car that weighs 3500 pounds and only pulls .65 to .70 G's in a corner, and a 2500 pound car that can pull .95 to 1.0+ G's in a corner. The same principle applies to braking and acceleration.

[jhv48]

Examine that car carefully and ask the owner for proof (receipts) if he claims that the parts are all new (non donor).

If donor parts were used, it's a crapshoot. Go very low on the price, as you are really buying a VERY used car and may have to rebuild/replace all the donor parts sooner than later.

A FFR with all new parts would be a better value and can be had relatively cheap in this economy. (Cheaper than buying all the parts and assembling them yourself).

[CobraEd]

The single point of most stress when accellerating is on . . . Wait for it, . . .





. . . . . One Pinion gear tooth and One Ring gear tooth.

Think of a car pulling a wheelstand off the line. All of that is being held by one tooth on the pinion and one tooth on the ring gear


.

[PANAVIA]

Ffr,s are the inexpensive way to go, but they also have a very easy upgrade pathway.

For a durability point, the 4 lug stuff should be fine and would last longer due to the weight difference of cob vs fox. With that said , the 5 bolt change for the front is just a rotor swap, the 5 lug swap for the back is axle shafts and drums, stock, or you can upgrade to rear disc brakes in a number of different manners.

The proposed car has rear discs right?

Keep in mind there are some significant chassis changes between 87-93 and 94-95 and 1996 onward.

The good news is the factory five car is kind of like Lego bricks , any combination of parts can be had and installed with some effort.

The only thing holding back factory five cars from a resale standpoint is that very unpredictability , so if you are smitten with a factory five kitten, ger her checked out by the vet-er-Narian.


Steve

[NCSNAKE]

Picking her up tomorrow. Car was manufactured in 2003, completed in 2008 and has 700 miles on the odometer. Rear end is a "Cobra Racing" (?) 8.8 piece with 3.55 gears and posi unit. Transmission is a new Tremec 5-speed. Front end has adjustable, tubular upper and lower A-arms with a new rack unit. Looking hard it appears the donar parts are the disc brakes on all four corners and the fuel inject 302 under the hood. Already looking at stepping up for Wilwood brakes. I can live with the fuel injection for the rest of this summer!

[TButtrick]

Remember, you're stopping a car whose brakes were designed for a car that is 1000 lbs. heavier. The stock Ford stuff works well on these cars.

[NCSNAKE]

Is it tomorrow yet!

[lovehamr]

Worth noting when discussing Fox Mustang 4 luggers is that nearly any "real" performance version got 5 lugs and 4 wheel disc brakes. That knowledge alone would make me swap them out.

Steve

[Excaliber]

I wouldn't swap them out myself, I think the 4 lug will be strong enough. If you do swap out to 5 lug you also have to buy new wheels. The cost would be to high for me to consider, the car is what it is.

Of more concern to me is the 3.55 rear gear in combination with the typical T-5 first gear ratio of 3.27 (or something near that). That combo equals an extremely low first gear overall ratio, virtually worthless except for "frying tires". It's real good at that, I would guess 25 to 30 mph top speed in first. Maybe it comes with a chain, for "pulling stumps", you could start your own business.

With gearing that low you won't need a powerful motor, you will be able to impress your friends and leave twin black marks on the pavement at will. It's gonna be glorius!!

[rustyBob]

I guess thats what turned me off to the FFR cars........
all used parts on a new frame and body with a new
paint job and interior.......
finding a used or wrecked Mustang to strip just seemed like
to much work and then haveing a dead carcus to dispose of......no thanks.

[Excaliber]

I don't know, I think the "used parts" angle is over blown myself. Nothing wrong with a wrecked Mustang you can pick and choose what parts to use from.

Granted, it is a hassle getting the car to your place and disposing of the body when your done. Of course it leaves a question mark as to the quality of parts. My experience has been theres no gaurentee with new parts!! I just don't have a problem with "road tested" parts myself.

The price should reflect the build quality. Thats the number one thing that keeps me looking at FFR's. They are often a good deal, a bargain for the price, for what you get.

We ALL will customize our replicas to more of our personal taste. But, you can quickly shoot your "bargain" in the foot by getting carried away wanting to "replace" stuff with new and better. Let it go, if it works, it's OK. Spend the money wisely, there is no return on investment to speak of by changing from 4 to 5 lug for instance (when you factor in new wheels and tire mounting/balance). Now if your concern is your going racing and will it be strong enough? Well, that could be debated, I'm not convinced a 4 lug isn't good enough, myself.

[CobraEd]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I'm not convinced a 4 lug isn't good enough, myself.

I agree.


.

[ItBites]

Do the FFR challenge cars use 4-lugs? If so, some of those are pretty fast around the track and see high loads a nd are still reliable race cars. I understand the formula for the challenge cars is low on power, but still track exercise is pretty gruelling when you get a good driver (or maybe worse with a bad driver..).

I would think that if the FFR challenge cars can be relaible with 4 lugs, I'd be comfortable in a 302 powered FFR.

[Excaliber]

Good point about the Challenge series cars, however, I doubt they use 4 lug. If I was building a new FFR street or challenge series version, I'd go with 5 lug if I had a choice. Your going to find a better wheel selection for one thing and it just makes sense from a pure racing perspective.

If I was buying a used FFR and it happen to come with 4 lug, I'd be disappointed, but if all else was good, I'd live with it. I don't race "that much" after all, but if it was a dedicated race car, like a Challenge car, I'd opt for the 5 lug and would likely spend the money to change it from 4 to 5. Just to be sure of the strength issue, I guess...