Evans WATERLESS Coolant

[Excaliber]

Shessshh, and I thought the Evans was expensive, no you want me to get an alloy block too??!! If I did have one, I'd be running Evans for sure....

And remember, the Evans does NOT dissipate heat faster than water, the advantages lay else where and are the subject of the debate!

[JBCOBRA]

Hi Rodknock
I heard your engine never gets hot.

But thats only because you never turn it on LOL

[Excaliber]

Some new facts I learned and then I'm off to pick up another AC unit for the house (DAM it's hot)!!

Evans expands about 7%, thus the loss of water if zero pressure and no overflow tank, or overfilling the system to begin with.

Evans contains NO additives to prevent corrosion, because it's non-corrosive. Adding water won't hurt in a pinch, other than boiling point trouble (remove/loosen the cap in an emergency) but the water could cause corrosion trouble in time. Flush and replace the coolant after the emergency situation. Slow leak and trying to get home? Loosen cap, go to zero pressure, add water as required! Is this stuff great or what????

[COBRAMAN 484]

I've been running evans for about eight or nine years with no problem I run a four pound cap. If you have any h2o in the system it will boil out. I used it because of a heating problem. Evens boiling point is at 370 degrees at zero pressure. I changed it two years ago just because. I have had the motor apart several times and just save and reuse the coolant ( at the price I don't want to throw it away ). My motor is a 484 stroker.

[Excaliber]

I've been giving some thought to "blocking the by-pass hose" installation instructions for converting to Evans coolant.

I'm thinking, it's a good idea, for better cooling, regardless of what kind of coolant you use, even straight water. Why not?? Blocking the by-pass forces all the water through the radiator. For those who are running on the edge of to hot, this could be just the ticket.

NO changes of anything but the coolant itself are recommended for those with computer control engines.

Also, some suggested conversion steps, such as: full flow t-stat or removing it completely, blocking the by-pass, changing the water pump, radiator, etc. are specifically for max cooling in a race or high performance engine. Those suggestions could also apply to those street driven cars running on the edge of to hot.

My plan is to keep my system basically the same as it is now, no significant changes other than the coolant AND a low pressure radiator cap. I'll look for a 7 lb, or so, cap (and plugging the water pump weep hole with silicone). I want to see how much, if any, my water temp's go up, or down, after the conversion.

Presently, even on a hot day, at freeway speeds, my water temp (temp sensor in the engine near the t-stat) run's slightly LESS than the 180 degree t-stat. Perhaps 170 or there about. In TOWN, on a hot day, the temp will reach 215-220, at which time the fan engages. I usually turn the fan on manually in town which keeps the temp below 212. Fan temp sensor is located on the radiator, where the temp is always lower than the engine temp sensor.

I've decided not to try to increase my engine temp, all though with Evans you could without incurring a problem. I'm hoping to maintain near the same temps I've had before with the peace of mind that IF the temp's get to high, for whatever reason, the Evans offers a nice cushion. It will allow for higher engine temps without damaging any components due to steam pockets and boil over because of it's extremely high boiling point even at zero system pressure.

The all but extraordinary precautions about draining and flushing the system are for those who are currently running any kind of antifreeze mix in their systems. It sounds like some modern antifreeze components, more than 3% and after a month or so of contamination, can lead to "gelling" of the Evans and other nasty stuff. It's the additives in the antifreeze that present a potential problem. For those running straight water, like myself, there is far less concern, but still, you are strongly advised to remove all the water because of potential corrorsion affects (of the water) over time. Evans has no corrosion inhibitors.

[Ronbo]

It may seem insignificant, but as Ernie states even a small area of steam is in fact very compressed because of system pressure, in the case of a leak it will displace it's uncompressed volume of water from the system.

Sorry folks, but some of these points like the "pile of money" are, well, BS.

Lets see $100 on the Evens (A pittance compared to the amount of $$ I have in my engine BTW) vs. what? 3 or 4 coolant changes at $?? The difference that ERA seems so upset about just got a lot smaller.

God forbid I mention the effects water has on your block, pump, and radiator.

Worst off is the "it was good enough back in '65" tired-azzed comment, Yep, so was half a can of Copenhagen in the radiator to try to plug the leaks up. Sorry, things have changed since then.

The radiator / fan is a legitimate concern, the Evens stuff will be tougher to cool off because of the thermal efficiency difference from water. The engine side will be a different matter since the reduction of flash boiling in the cylinder head passages and cylinder walls will be reduced. This gives Evens an advantage over water so at worst they'd even out performance wise.

The automotive mfgs will not incur any cost above what's needed to get the vehicle through it's warrenty period. Case in point; since the Fed mandated covering emission systems to 50k miles the auto mfgs had no choice but to use SS exhaust systems. However all of them have re-formulated coolant with the widespread use of aluminum in both engine components and radiators because "ol green" wasn't up to the job.

The reason GM or Ford or any other large-scale mfg doesn't use technology is simple: One penny off production costs equals one dollar in the all the VP's, CEO and board member's pocket. Kinda like "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", these guy's motto is "If no one knows any better, use the cheaper stuff".

Nobody wants to follow Edison's example of building stuff that still works 100yrs later.

[vector1]

copenhagen in the radiator.....aaaahhhhhh just when i thought i kicked the habit.

excalibur--i never plugged the weep hole in the truck with 0 pressure or the jbl with pressure, no difference. i think they're afraid the seal will not operate with 0 pressure.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

IThe difference that ERA seems so upset about just got a lot smaller.

God forbid I mention the effects water has on your block, pump, and radiator.

I was never 'upset' about cost-I only stated that it's been the most cost effective way to cool given regular maintenance. My biggest b!tch has been your infantile mania about steam, corrosion and other junk-science ramblings. Things affecting virtually NONE of us. But you continue to champion waterless and encourage it's use here. AND YOU DON'T EVEN USE IT IN YOUR KMP!

Since my block and iron heads were blueprinted in '91, since my aluminum rad went on in '95 and my aluminum heads went on in '03-ZERO evidence of steam or corrosion internally on any parts. Drag raced, road raced and street driven. Every third season I drain the block and complete system and refill with distilled and green coolant. Easy and it comes out as clean as it went in.

How much steam do you anticipate parading around Florida? Possibly if you run the KMP (if you ever actually install Evans in it) in the Daytona 24 Hour.

You also further your self-contradictions with the last paragraph. I asked you repeatedly why, after spending for the research, GM doesn't use it. True answer- costs them too much and problematic in the field as in accident replacement or DIY non-use. So in the last paragraph, you agree with me.

Professor, you've really embarrassed yourself with this convoluted, lame presentation. If you persist here, leave me out of your nonsense. Take your medicine and lie down.

[Excaliber]

I can't rule out the steam pocket theory around the combustion chambers, here's why. It's well known that running an engine at elevated temperatures promotes and is in fact the cause of premature detonation, knock, ping. I've seen this many times, high temp and knock go hand in hand. Lot's of times folks get lucky with an overheated engine, no DISCERNIBLE or APPARENT engine damage. Hard to say what the impact may be long term. Like a few months later when you don't connect a current engine problem with an overheating issue that happened some time back...

But it IS a fact, overheating can and often does lead to blown head gaskets and warped heads. Like Bogie said to Bacall, maybe not now, but soon, in the future.

So I gotta ask myself, what is the connection between an over heated engine and the potential damage? Could that be,,, wait for it,,, steam pockets???

I see the Evans as "insurance" against this potential engine trouble. Evans offers the best protection against a steam pocket or boil over or loss of cooling capacity in a case of; Stuck t-stat or broken fan motor, timing issues, lean carb setting, blocked radiator or any other numerous causes of over heating. What it will buy you is precious time!

If you haven't over heated lately and your engine shows no signs of damage, terrific. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile, some folks are lucky, some not so much. I'll take the insurance...

[ERA Chas]

Ernie-I don't know why you're going the extra miles to give nebulous testimony to the number of steam pocket-related crises (NOT) reported here. You seem to be talking yourself into the 'need' for this stuff. And I'm not just the 'lucky squirrel' who found a nut. And I haven't overlooked any insidious damage and corrosion. Repeated maintenance and strenuous usage has revealed none.

But you have my undying respect because you're putting your money where your mouth is in a very public way- unlike Professor Ronbo who may have planted this seed in your mind but does not have it in HIS Cobra.

As Pat said earlier-we'll be watching.

[Excaliber]

Chas, I don't know why you remain in denial that this steam pocket theory is highly likely,if not out right fact (which I believe it is). Perhaps you could offer a better explanation of the relationship between pre-ignition, blown head gaskets (many of which have been reported here, hmmm) and warped heads with an elevated engine temperature?

"We", this Cobra group, are a very small fraction of the rest of the automotive world. What has or hasn't been reported here doesn't mean much considering the size of the automotive world. My car is not some weekend warrior or show car, I drive it, and drive it hard. I've had it long time, put a lot of miles on it and that won't change in the future. Stuff happens out there in the real world. To date, I haven't had any trouble with overheating issues or damage to speak off, probably won't. But this Evan's technology offers a lot of potential protection on many levels, in my opinion. Following the Cobra, I plan to run it in every vehicle (including my bikes) that I own. Yeah, I think it's thats good!

The temp sensor went out on my Suzuki 650 a few weeks ago, fan never came on. I didn't notice the temp gauge until it was off the chart HOT HOT HOT!!! The bike seem's to be OK, no damage that I can tell, sure wish I had been running Evan's in it when that happened!!! Had a nice puddle of green fluid at my feet when I pulled over... Evans would have been cheap at twice the price right about then.

[patrickt]

Ernie, tell me again what heat related problem it is that you are experiencing?

[Excaliber]

You don't need to have an accident to determine that "insurance" is a good thing. You don't have to be paranoid to buy it either. Some things in life just make sense in planning for future events.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Chas, I don't know why you remain in denial that this steam pocket theory is highly likely,if not out right fact (which I believe it is). Perhaps you could offer a better explanation of the relationship between pre-ignition, blown head gaskets (many of which have been reported here, hmmm) and warped heads with an elevated engine temperature?

To correct your first sentence: a theory is not a fact. Steam formation is a fact-it is NOT 'highly likely' in my and apparently the forum's experience. Blown gaskets reported here are virtually all caused by improper gasket choice/construction/installation, poor machining or porosity of block or head surfaces. The gasket breach causes the coolant (or oil) loss which then could cause steam formation. NO coolant will prevent that once the gasket is breached.

I'll make this is as simple as I can: I do not deny that these scientific occurrences can exist. I have had the experience that in 25 years of driving and racing the same Cobra with two different engines and states of tune-that I have not had ANY such occurrences. The group of approximately 40 other Cobras in my region have had no reported failures of head gaskets or pre-ignition related problems. Nor have any of my street cars suffered these failures in 45 years of driving them.

The primary causes of pre-ignition are improper timing and poor fuel. We've all figured out how to avoid this. As has the majority of this forum. Yet you and the Professor continue to pontificate on the ease and frequency of these dreaded failures.

So like the OEM's and most aircraft users have figured out-there's no practical need for this 'savior' coolant. It may be a neat scientific chemical but I have repeatedly stated that what I've used for decades has served perfectly-and my standard-bore block is NOT a moth-eaten rusty hulk because of these materials.

I really hope this horse is dead now.

[Excaliber]

Why does anyone bother to run antifreeze type coolant at all? For what reason? The green stuff has it's problems, it is not recommended in all cases, nor is Dexcool. One must choose wisely his mix of coolant, or additives if your running straight water. What type of "savior" coolant would you choose? Are you using a special antifreeze mix to control corrosion or for freeze protection? Do you run water in the summer, change to antifreeze in the winter? Run a high pressure cap because you FEAR boil over?

One must choose his poison, green, yellow, red, whatever color of the rainbow that you like for your coolant. I see no evidence that ANY of the other coolants on the market are superior to Evans coolant. So, why not run the best? Really, WHY NOT??? WHAT is the downside here? I don't see one.

Whatever "poison" you choose, in a couple of years the additives will be depleted and the coolant should be changed or new additives added. Evans coolant doesn't need or use additives, put it in, your done.

[scottj]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

I really hope this horse is dead now.

Proof by verbosity doesn't work that way. There is sure to be a steady stream of anecdotal testimony once the coolant is up and running.

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I see no evidence that ANY of the other coolants on the market are superior to Evans coolant.

Not that scientific evidence and facts have anything to do with this discussion, but if one were interested, there are a number of SAE papers out there for one to read.

[Excaliber]

Having read a few, my opinion is they fail to make their case. There are also SAE papers out there about the ill effects of green, yellow or red coolant mix, various coolant additives, etc. Take your pick, choose wisely what is best for your conditions and intended use...

As far as Dex-cool goes, I think the class action law suits have now been handled... Yeah, that was some good stuff (NOT)!

[Excaliber]

Colors of the rainbow, curios, so I checked the various colors of antifreeze on the market.

Colors of the rainbow about cover it. Let's add pink, orange and blue to the mix. Do not top up your antifreeze based on the color. Japanese antifreeze mix is different than American mixes and are not compatible with just another brand of the same color. In most cases you can't go wrong with the "green stuff" (old school), but change it every two years or so as the additives will be depleted.

...or, just run Evan's and be done with the changes and get max protection all around and all year around. Like I said, I just don't see a down side here considering the available options and other choices.

[patrickt]

Ernie, when are you going to put it in? And BTW, will you be the only guy on this forum that actually uses it? Or are there others?

[Ronbo]

ERA, Embarrased? hardly. The only thing I find embarrasing is your constant name calling and personal attacks in this discussion.

If all the stuff I've outlined is insignificant, then why is it standard practice to hot-tank a block and heads prior to rebuild? We all know why.

Like I said do as you wish, but don't think your rant is any more viable to me than mine is to you. At this point you and I are just trading blows, so I won't be responding to any more of your comments and word twisting.

Ernie, I think you'll be happy with your choice to go with the Evens.