Evans WATERLESS Coolant

[Excaliber]

There have been a couple of guys posting on this thread that have used or are using Evan's coolant, so I'm not the first or only guy.

I will putting it in the Cobra first, all though, after my recent overheating issue with my Suzuki bike, I'm tempted to do THAT vehicle first! It's a pain in the butt keeping track of the various vehicles and when to add additives or change fluids when the time comes around. My plan with Evan's is, "Set it and forget it." If all goes well I will be using it in my "fleet" of vehicles. Truck, cars, bikes, but not the lawn mower and other air cooled engines around the place.

By the way, Japanese antifreeze products rely heavily on silicates as an additive. Griffin, who doesn't have a problem with Evans, states you should NOT use a silicate type antifreeze product in their radiators. Apparently the silicates are abrasive.

Look, if "green" is working for ya, and you don't mind changing every two years or so, then carry on. Me? I want to reduce the pressure on my system (this thread is not helping ) and extend the service life of my coolant for fleet use.

I am reminded of the Brad Penn oil and ZDDP debate thread. MY preferred method is Shell Rotella and a couple of bottles of STP. Brad Penn oil is good, but complicated to get for me. Rotella is easy and is readily available on the highway should I need to top up. What ever works for ya...

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

ERA, At this point you and I are just trading blows, so I won't be responding to any more of your comments and word twisting.

Ernie, I think you'll be happy with your choice to go with the Evens.

Great-and I'm done too. Ernie, when you test the "Evens'(sic), please be sure to inform Ron how it works in an FE Cobra. He still doesn't know.

[Excaliber]

I don't know that I will be able to definitively report any significant difference. Maybe, either way, I will certainly be up-dating the thread with temp readings before and after and whatever else I might learn along the way.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I don't know that I will be able to definitively report any significant difference. Maybe, either way, I will certainly be up-dating the thread with temp readings before and after and whatever else I might learn along the way.

If nothing bad happens, I'm willing to call it a success.

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by patrickt

If nothing bad happens, I'm willing to call it a success.

Ah, the final word.

Ron

[Excaliber]

In particular I'm looking forward to running this stuff in my diesel truck. Fleet tests have shown an increase in mpg as a result of running higher engine temps using Evan's. Using t-Stats that maintain engine temp around 215 instead of 180 degrees. No worries about boil over at that and higher temps. The down side, for a fleet with multiple drivers is the education and tight control of the maintenance. You don't want drivers topping off with water just because it's readily available.

But Smoky Yunick knew about all this decades ago, the man was ahead of his time when it came to engine temp research and benefits. And look at the manufacturers today, who have steadily increased engine temp heat range to a higher level. They know it too! 190 and higher is common today. If my temps go up, as a result of Evan's coolant, I think that will be a bonus.

1984, Smoky's Fiero get's 51 mpg and does 0-60 mph in 6 seconds (as tested by Hot Rod). There is NO waste heat, that engine is "covered up" in insulating material designed to preserve engine heat. The man, the legend, holds a bunch of patents, he would have been on Evans like white on rice.

[vector1]

well...............? found this btw

Evans Coolant - Detailed Test Results!

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by vector1

well...............? found this btw

Evans Coolant - Detailed Test Results!

Many of you don't know them but every one of those posters were solid, no BS guys. Shame they (except Roscoe I think) don't come here anymore...

[Excaliber]

Well,,,, I ran into a bit of a snag from what I learned during SAAC-35. More than a few people there were running Evan's coolant and having nothing but good things to say about it. I also ran into a fellow who could not bring his 427 FE, his surge tank sprung a leak due to pressure in the system. HE was all ears as several of us talked about the benefit's of a low pressure system and you can do that (instead of buying surge tanks) with Evans!

The snag: I have NPG+, which is not "officially" recommended for copper/brass radiator systems because the tubing is smaller than is found in aluminum radiators. NPG+, the fear is, is two fold.
1. It won't circulate as well as the thinner NPG-R.
2. It does not have as great a heat capacity as NPG-R.
In either, or both cases, you could find yourself running higher than desirable engine coolant temps.

NPG-R is recommended to change/flush yearly (aint gonna happen, WAY to expensive to replace). NPG-R also does not have a low freezing temp point, it turns to "un-pumpable" slush in a very cold climate (Michigan?).

Bottom line is NPG-R isn't what I want to use, so, I'm going in with NPG+ and we'll see what happens!

There is little doubt my engine temps will be hotter than running straight water. I have run both water and antifreeze mix before. Clearly, nothing cools as well as water alone.

So how hot is TO hot? I think the typical "hotness" numbers we see are based on water systems with it's 212 boiling point, and it tendency to turn to steam around the combustion chambers. These temps are NOT based on what an engine can tolerate, or even "like" as far as temp goes. Studies have shown increasing the engine temp well above what we used to consider "normal" can increase performance, mpg, emissions, etc. Indeed, we limit engine temps to parameters that WATER can work within, not the engine itself.

Engine oil is still a valid concern, we do not want that to get to high. And that number is???? I was running about 110-115 C at SAAC-35, no oil cooler. My water temp's, after 6 or 7 laps were 235-240 degrees. I WAS loosing water!!! It was blowing it right out of the surge tank into the overflow tank and then onto the ground. Motor ran and still runs terrific by the way...

Anyway, perhaps by this weekend I'll get around to dumping the straight water and going ahead with the Evans. BUT, I won't really really know how it works until I hit a BIG track again and really push everything to the limit.

...what a nightmare returning from SAAC-35. My dogs killed the neighbors cat while I was away and pretty much all hell broke loose around here as a result. Not being a cat lover my first thought was: Dogs 1, Cats 0, and that's a problem??

[Excaliber]

Pretty cool seeing my buddy come off the track after a few hard laps and reach down and TAKE OFF his radiator cap with hardly a second thought!!!! He's running Evans (obviously) and a zero pressure cap on his Roush 427W. HE had no coolant loss, I was the one having trouble with that!

[olddog]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

My dogs killed the neighbors cat while I was away and pretty much all hell broke loose around here as a result. Not being a cat lover my first thought was: Dogs 1, Cats 0, and that's a problem??

This is not going to make Jamo happy!

[Excaliber]

Well, the dirty deed is done, the diagnosis and report is well underway.

Initial findings:
80 degree today, somewhat overcast, light traffic. I cut the seal on my 13 Lb radiator cap and am running zero pressure. I left the surge tank about an inch low from the top AFTER the engine had reached full operating temp. I was very careful to "burp" the system for any air pockets. I KNOW this system and exactly what it takes to do MINE.

There is no change in engine or oil temps, I'm shocked, still waiting for the other shoe to drop, this don't feel right for some reason....

Around town in light traffic, stop lights and such, no change, it runs between 95 and 100 C, the fan kicks on occasionally (in auto mode). The oil temp is unchanged.

On the freeway, 70 mph cruise speed. No change, water or oil temp. I'm still scratching my head, I was SURE there would be SOME change (hotter), which I was OK with.

Now it IS a nice cool day, so that may be a BIG factor. I DID make more than a few hard runs, shift points at 6,000 rpm, I showed the car no mercy, never ran the fan in manual.

Next up: A good run on a race track OR I know a couple of canyon roads I like to run in third gear at sustained medium to high rpm. Secondarily, a good hot summer day (may have to wait until next year).

This stuff sure has an oily feel to it. I'm sold on Evans, done, I'm going to run it in everything I have, from my diesel truck to my motorcycle's.

I WILL run a pressure cap, 7 or 8 lbs or less if I can find one. I noticed that some coolant was pushed out of the surge tank into the overflow tank immediately after a high rpm hard run, followed by a quick stop and check. Surprsingly, the coolant was sucked back into the engine very quickly after shut down. I cut the BOTTOM seal on the radiator cap, not the top one. I suspect the high flow water pump generates enough "pressure" by itself to "blow" water out of the system, thus the need for at least a moderate pressure cap (I guess, still working on that idea).

It's WINTER a comin'. You guys going to flush and add/renew antifreeze this year? Cut to the chase, run WATER, or run EVAN's. Antifreeze is way old school, that stuff is history.

[vector1]

the level will fluctuate, i've seen it on my diesel truck. i wouldn't be surprised to see 1".

[vector1]

i just finished an engine and using the npg, in an approx. 3 x5 header tank the fluid level moves about 2", so the stuff expands quite a bit, don't be surprised if you overfill and blow some out. i'm not running any pressure btw.

[Excaliber]

My system holds 4 gallons and it expands a bunch all right! An overflow tank is a must have (and I do have one) for this conversion. So far, at this point with mild weather, I can't see any substantial difference between Evans and water (as far as cooling capacity goes). This time of year I would normally have drained the water and re-filled with antifreeze anyway.

[Ronbo]

Glad to hear things went well.

Ernie, get a radiator cap for a farm tractor. They're typically 4~7 psi.

Here's a 7psi: http://cgi.ebay.com/ford-tractor-rad...item5194ca84a0

Here's a 4psi: http://cgi.ebay.com/Radiator-Cap-Int...item58873ffa97

Although if your not seeing any issues, I'd keep it at zero pressure.

[OCCOBRA]

I used Evans on a 428 and stuff worked well EXCEPT.
being really 100% GLYCOL which has a tendency to creep by gaskets (I am in the boiler business and knew this) I after about 4 months started to see some evidense of glycol on my plugs! I took out the Evans and issue disappeared. Your engine will not run cooler if anything a bit hoter due to lower heat conductivity, but if your engine runs HOT say 230 -240+ then EVANs is the stuff. Evans is correct in saying that the steam pockets are eliminated. I am still sold on it but elected to use standard water mixture instead. Do not have that car any longer but was considering going to EVANS with my SO427 which was running hot. Did some other things so no need now. But if I did I would watch my plugs.

[Excaliber]

I've been working on the car this morning, apparently I didn't tighten the lower radiator hose clamp enough and have a BIG puddle of Evans under the front of the car. I bought 5 gallons, so I have enough to top off.

,,,but, it's not like you can buy this stuff just anywhere. If I have a problem on the road and have to use water it could get costly doing a flush and refill later at 30-35 bucks a gallon!

Strange thing is, I have a radiator pressure tester (pump it up). I tested the system pressure when I first finished the job. It held pressure for about a half hour. I tightened the hose clamp, pressure test again, looks OK now. What's up with that???

Perhaps OCCOBRA is onto something about how this stuff has a tendency to "leak". I think I'll run some kind of "Alumaseal" leak stop compound as a precautionary measure. I ALWAYS ran some kind of stop leak on my Jaguar V-12, as recommended by the FACTORY (it still leaked on occasion, Jaguars, Harleys, FE's, just the nature of the beasts I guess)...

[vector1]

i think in an emergency you can use straight antifreeze and not have to go through the drying process.

an aside, i used some bottom line felpro head gaskets and might have some leakage, probably should have used the mls. might be looking at some stopleak.

[Excaliber]

Well I just got back from some "hill climb" action. A mountain road, uphill, very twisty with many 25 and 30 mph posted speed limit corners, other wise, 55 mph. I've made that run before, with straight water. Using 2nd gear and high rpm or third within the power band rpm. In either case, coolant temps were identical with straight water. BUT!!!! Oil temps are certainly higher. Oil temp is higher when I'm simply cruising on the freeway as well. With water the oil was always trailing the coolant by 15 C degrees. With Evans those temps, for the most part, track each other almost identically. I never saw the oil temp exceed the coolant temp and after a long steady freeway cruise would slowly drop 5 degrees or so below coolant temp.

It's strange seeing the higher oil temps, as someone else mentioned they also observed (on another thread). Temps seem to go higher quicker across the board and come down as quickly too! Once you have reached operating temp (180 degrees with thermostat in my case) any sudden accelleration, down shifting and hammer down type moves, all but instantly will cause a temperature increase. Around town it's the same thing. I pull off the freeway at just under 90 c and at the first stop light I'm at a 100 c, just like that (oil temp as well)! With water, it would slowly rise to a 100 c around town, a few stop lights, some traffic congestion, oil temp would take much longer but eventually would increase as well. Now all I have to do is slow down and the temps (water and oil) start to climb.

I was pushing it hard and doing what I thought would generate the max load and heat on the engine up the twisty mountain road. Like running 2nd gear at high rpm or third at mid rpm, full throttle on the straights, braking hard for the corners, powering out. 105 c, both water and oil. I was running higher water and oil temps than that at Infineon (straight water). So I guess I was not able to duplicate the loads of a real race track. I have a hunch it will be about the same as water.

HOWEVER, I remain concerned about the possibility of higher oil temps on a race track with Evans instead of water!

I'm not running an oil cooler, perhaps I should now reconsider that. In Hawaii it was always a challenge to get my oil temps up as high as I wanted it to be. The LAST thing I wanted was an oil cooler!

The expansion rate, on my car, is significant! Easily two inches, gotta be more than that even. When cold my surge tank is only half full. After an intense high rpm run (like a hill climb) my overflow bottle is half full! I suspect it's "pump pressure" as much as expansion. Water pump pressure pushing coolant out and into the overflow. Surprisingly that water is pulled back in very quickly as well. Cooling down from 100 c to 90 c the coolant is recovered back into the system, this happens very quickly. To check the overflow I need to get it up to a 100 c, run some high rpm, pull over quick and check to see how full the bottle is. If I shut down the engine it will take some time for the overflow coolant to be sucked back in. But if I drive off normally and the temp drops to 90 c (or less) that water is back in the engine already. Strange that...