Looking to purchase a Cobra

[FIA-ERA]

How does MY DMV know what year my car was produced? There is not one thing anywhere that shows when my car was given birth. I don't have a MSO, I don't have any receipts from the original owner, and my vin has 14 characters (old style). Hell, the only one that knows that info. is Peter P. at ERA and the original owner! I don't even know it for that matter. Your going to tell me they will go back and investigate why my car that has had three owners, two different states, reverse the history of 16 years of it's life, and call me a Fraudulent person.
All of this because I just want to register a car I bought and want to drive in any given state? I might be wrong but I believe the majority of the folks that got in trouble in Ca. were the ones building "new" cars and wanting to register there "new" car as a 65 to get around having to pay exorbitant taxes. The taxes on new $75K Corvette are A LOT more than a 65 Cobra (titled kit car) with the same costs to build or bought. Correct?

All I know is here in Georgia, if I were to start over with a new ERA Cobra (or any Cobra) they don't except these types of cars anymore. Period! As of my last checking, they are under investigation by the state on which way they should proceed and are on "hold" till the legislature decides what to do. If I wanted to build a CAV GT40, I'm screwed unless I can put a smog motor in that car and it can pass 2010 emissions. It's partly because I live in the metro counties that fall under the emissions but also the title and registration would be a 2010 (like it should). BUT, if I bought one from another state as a 65 and brought it in I would be fine. But your saying I would be fraudulent to try and do so, mmm. I'm not trying to start a pissing match but I must have been living the last 7 years as a lie and didn't know it!

[Excaliber]

I won't tell ya or suggest what you should do in any given state or Georgia. Do what you gotta do to get it registered, I guess. If your feeling pretty lucky about the whole 1965 thing and thats what it takes, knock yourself out.

In Hawaii we couldn't register a "kit car" of any kind, including Dune buggies, on Oahu until just a few years ago. Now a few of us who DID have replica Cobras came up with various ways to "get-r-done". One fellow simply walked in and declared he had a 1965 Ford, got it registered! That didn't work for the next guy. Some registered out of state, most of us registered in a different county (Kaui, Maui, Big Island). Point is, anyway you did it, it was fraud, straight up. OK, we all go lucky. Not so much in California though, when the State cracked down on the whole 1965 title deal. SPF owners in particular, had their cars confiscated, police showed up with arrest warrants, man it got SO ugly!!! THAT CONTINUES, do the fraud, be prepared to do the time. Will they check out the previous owners and history of the car? California did, and people got busted, seriously.

This 1965 title thing is not to be taken lightly, it all depends on the State you live in and their rules/laws. Do not assume a 1965 title is the ticket, it may be a complete disaster.

"We", the local Cobra owners in Hawaii, got political, got a law passed, got our cars legal. That took well over a year, but we did it. Fought the politics tooth and nail doing it, but we prevailed in the end. Until then, we kept a low profile with our cars. The guy with the 1965 Ford? He came clean when there was a law that allowed it.

Risky business fooling around with a 1965 title, ya feeling lucky?

[FIA-ERA]

AGAIN, It was already titled that way. I did nothing but hand over the Title, paid for the tag, and in three days had a new title with my name on it. Done. Why would I tell them anything other wise? They would look at me like I'm on crack! I'm not trying to get away with anything BUT the title that was given to my car. Now if I was trying to register a new car that way, yes I would be a Fraud! I'm I feeling lucky, hell ya!

[decooney]

FIA-ERA,
FYI: a vin is assigned by an actual vehicle manufacturer. If you own an ERA, there is another place on the frame where there is a VIN stamped, that matches your original MSO. Call ERA and they will tell you where it is. This is your original VIN unless your state DMV / State Patrol Office assigned one to you in addition to the original chassis VIN.

As for your DMV, you might check the bottom of this form signed by the person who registered the car in your state. Its worth looking in to so you don't have any hassles down the road. Many of us have been through it here in CA and pleading ignorance was not an option for us. See GA MV App form, and signature area and decide for yourself. Good Luck.
http://motor.etax.dor.ga.gov/forms/p...n_Form_MV1.pdf

[ack fia]

In many states (including Taxachusettes) they collect sales taxes at the time of registration. Lets see, a 1965 Cobra is valued (no they don't take the sales reciept, they look up the real value) at somewhere north of $500,000. The taxes would be over $32,000.
Be my guest. Oh by the way, each year you also get an excise tax bill from your town based on the value.
Some of our great car guys got the SEMA based law passed this last year so for the next year we are in the clear if your car is titled as a 20XX replica of a 1965 Cobra.
Pat

[strictlypersonl]

Originally Posted by decooney

FIA-ERA,
FYI: a vin is assigned by an actual vehicle manufacturer. If you own an ERA, there is another place on the frame where there is a VIN stamped, that matches your original MSO. Call ERA and they will tell you where it is. This is your original VIN unless your state DMV / State Patrol Office assigned one to you in addition to the original chassis VIN.

You are correct to say that the VIN is assigned by a vehicle manufacturer. We aren't one. We sell parts. The chassis is assigned an ERA number which also goes on our MSO. The MSO refers to an assembly of parts only. The MSO will typically be confiscated by the DMV when you register your kit.

When you register the finished kit in your state, they assign an official 13-digit number which goes into the national database. The ERA chassis number is then completely irrelevant to anyone except those who desire some reference to other ERAs.

[madmaxx]

LOL, I forgot all the fun with titling one of these things. Texas has the best arrangement, titled as the year it is built, but under remarks it states replica and year it replicates. Those are the emission you are required to meet.

The only way you would gain an advantage to buying new with warranty is if the installer lived within 10 miles of your house and did not mind towing it back each time. BDR and SPF cause their dealers to put up with BS they should not have too!!!

As far as engine warranties, YOU HAD BETTER READ EVERY SINGLE LINE of the warranty agreement BEFORE you purchase. They are much more restrictive then you GM or Ford warranties. I doubt I would buy a new Ford Racing Engine, they do not come complete so Ford has a way out if a problem does arrive blaming on your parts or installation. If I had to buy a new engine it would be a Keith Craft, he is the last of the mohicans.

[decooney]

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

You are correct to say that the VIN is assigned by a vehicle manufacturer. We aren't one. We sell parts. The chassis is assigned an ERA number which also goes on our MSO. The MSO refers to an assembly of parts only. The MSO will typically be confiscated by the DMV when you register your kit.

When you register the finished kit in your state, they assign an official 13-digit number which goes into the national database. The ERA chassis number is then completely irrelevant to anyone except those who desire some reference to other ERAs.

Hi Bob,
FYI: This 13-digit format is not true in all cases and all states and inspection areas. Some inspectors choose to use our parts VIN number from your ERA chassis, and titled as SPCNS in the great old state of CA, or a.k.a. known as a Special Construction. I've seen it done more than a few times, and I can show you first hand. The VIN on my title and registration and paperwork is my ERA chassis number, as assigned by CA Highway Patrol. They are the ones who chose to do this - and thankfully so. After going round and round with our local patrol offices on it, on two different cars, the CHP here in my area wanted to keep it that way in case anything were to get stolen, it was a bit safer and easier to indentify the car. I've also seen it done this way here on other brand Cobras and custom built cars. Yes, under this program they do assign a tag with big rivots that could easliy be removed - but we proudly keep it there with our ERA number on it. I had to show and prove the VIN was in more than three places on the car/chassis. Out here when I went through it a few times, your ERA frame # stamp, brass front tag on x-brace, and your silver metal tag on body - installed by us is taken into consideration when they are all there in combination. And, when there is proof what they told me is they would rather go by the chassis number, not tags rivoted on to the fiberglass body by the person building the car. This is one of the main reasons they make us go through all this process here, to help identify special construction cars and what parts they are built with and to make sure the car is not stolen. They assigned a new VIN tag in addition (being the 4th) to the chassis number tag provided by ERA, and what is stamped in the frame - and the tag they provided reads ERA XXX as the VIN. FYI. It sounds like they handle it differently in some states, and there would have to be a lot of very expensive corrections to do if they've changed the approach once again from a national vs. local state standoint.

[Rickd]

Jpit..I wouldn't just blow off that silver FIA in Washington. First, it's not really radical .. it's a fuel injected 4.6 liter V8 that sounds like it has very good components. Be interesting to see who built it and how many miles are on the car. Don't forget ...prices are negotiable and can include delivery .. you might be able to work out a better deal than you think. Never know unless you ask. Plus it's a great time of year to use some frequent flier miles for a trip to Washington!!

[JPit]

No wonder the economy is in such trouble. Only the government could make it so difficult to purchase a car and get it registered…talk about slowing down commerce.
The last thing I want to do is get accused of fraud over registering a car. I talked to the NJ DMV today and might have been a little too forthcoming. I asked specifically if a car was titled and registered in another state as a 1965 cobra but is actually a kit car (I can’t help but be honest) could I just transfer that title. I was met with a resounding NO WAY. The car if approved would be titled the year the build was complete and if I could not prove that it would be titled the current year. As far as emissions go it would be the year of the engine. The DMV is sending me a full packet of the steps I will have to go through to get the car registered so I will keep everyone posted when I get it...3-5 days.
With far more responses about cars than I thought I would get ….DeCooney and MRMustang are correct. I have to completely evaluate my needs/desires and most import budget.
I do really like the lines of the FIA better so for now I think I will hold out for one. I still want to use the car as a weekend driver in the summer….a real grocery getter with occasional trips to the beach (2 hour drive and the need for that 5th gear).
I did set an upper budget of $45K for an ERA FIA, but now realize that was unrealistic once tax and shipping are factored in (which can easily push the price over $50k).
I will give my search for an FIA some time while keeping a close eye on the 427 market. I would rather take my time and find the right car at the right price than make an emotional purchase.

[Excaliber]

Both Hawaii and Oregon chose to retain the original ERA car number and use that as the VIN. ERAXXX is my vin number, oh, by the way, year/model listed on the title is 1965 Cobra. Like that means anything...

[JPit]

RickD, after I get a better handle on what it takes to register one of these cars in NJ I will reach out to the owner of the FIA in Washington. I don’t want to waste anyone’s times if the car ends up being un-registerable in NJ.

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by JPit

I did set an upper budget of $45K for an ERA FIA, but now realize that was unrealistic once tax and shipping are factored in (which can easily push the price over $50k).
I will give my search for an FIA some time while keeping a close eye on the 427 market. I would rather take my time and find the right car at the right price than make an emotional purchase.

That kind of budget is right in the ballpark for a Unique 289/FIA. Nothing wrong with the Unique product! Keep them in he crosshairs, too.

I agree with you, love the lean 'n' mean looks of a well built FIA.....nothing like the original!!!!

Cheers from Dugly

[decooney]

JPit,
It sounds like you are in the right track. We ALL have gone through these same questions at one point or another on that quest for the first Cobra. Some would agree you are better off for asking and researching up front vs. jumping in head first and asking questions later after you select your car. Absolutely - taking a little extra time like you are to figure things out a bit more can pay off HUGE later on down the road. One of the best and most memorable parts of doing this is the actual search and purchase of the first Cobra. And, when you do settle and pick the right car for you, it will even be that much sweeter knowing you did your homework first. Enjoy the ride getting there too. Good Luck.

[Cashburn]

A 4.6 in NJ under current regs? Good luck boys...

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by JPit

RickD, after I get a better handle on what it takes to register one of these cars in NJ I will reach out to the owner of the FIA in Washington. I don’t want to waste anyone’s times if the car ends up being un-registerable in NJ.

On a car already built, titled, registered in another state, NJ will accept the title at "face value". Of course where people try to get their cars registered using anything but a standard registration is where they throw up red flags these days. My advice, find a car that you like, buy it, use the title "at face value" with a standard registration (IE: not QQ/historic) and you can walk right through the DMV office with plates in hand the same day.


Bill S.

[FIA-ERA]

AGAIN, It was already titled that way. I did nothing but hand over the Title, paid for the tag, and in three days had a new title with my name on it. Done. Why would I tell them anything other wise? They would look at me like I'm on crack! I'm not trying to get away with anything BUT the title that was given to my car.

Bill, Thanks for shedding more of your experiences with us. This process isn't that hard BUT can be if try hard enough. I still believe at the end of the day if you have a current title (be it a 65/69/80), what ever it is, it is still easier to get that transferred than trying to buy new a go through that process! It DOES have it's advantages and should be considered over one with out, IMAO.

Bill, love your car, love the motor ( I have some of the Tunnel Port stuff), it will make a nice car for the right person! Hang in there!

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by FIA-ERA

Bill, Thanks for shedding more of your experiences with us. This process isn't that hard BUT can be if try hard enough. I still believe at the end of the day if you have a current title (be it a 65/69/80), what ever it is, it is still easier to get that transferred than trying to buy new a go through that process! It DOES have it's advantages and should be considered over one with out, IMAO.

Bill, love your car, love the motor ( I have some of the Tunnel Port stuff), it will make a nice car for the right person! Hang in there!

Transferring title into NJ is easy, initial inspection (from an MSO standpoint) is still easy if you follow their rules. Where people get into trouble is when they attempt to register the car with Historic (QQ) plates in NJ. In order to do so you must submit pictures of the car, the folks at the special titles division (I know a few ) are not stupid and will flag that type of application and send a friendly NJ State Trooper to your home for an up close inspection of the car....Once they see it is not an original 60's Cobra (loopholes of yesteryear have been closed) then and only then have you opened a pandoras box of trouble and will have to retitle, reinspect, and jump through hoops you normally would not have to.

As for my car being on the market again, if it sells I'll be sad to see it go, if it does not at my current price, I'll continue to enjoy it as my time allows. I have other items I can sell if I really need to come up with additional funds.....

Bill S.

[Excaliber]

Piece of cake registering in Hawaii or Oregon. In Hawaii it would be registered as a 1965, or whatever your current title say's it is. It will note that it's a "street rod", Hawaii's way of saying "kit".

Oregon accepted the 1965 title, no problem, but the title also notes it is "Branded" as a "kit car". Oregon's way of clearing the issue up.

In either case, like NJ, if you go in and claim you have a genuine 1965 Cobra and want historic plates, your gonna open up a can of worms, don't care what your current title says. These DMV people have been around the block enough to know what's up.

There are always exceptions to the rule, some folks get lucky in various states, get the Cobra registered as a genuine 1965 Ford, or whatever. But as each state, like Georgia is doing, contemplates how to handle these issues it could come back to haunt those that "got lucky" when the DMV starts to dig a little deeper, look a little harder.

[grybrd123]

I've been reading this thread with some interest. I have SPF coupe 123, and it's titled in Oregon as a 1965 Shelby replica and registered as a 1965 (registration does not say replica - that's only on the title). I had no problem with registration when I got the car in June 09, probably because the MSO that came with the car states clearly that the make is a "Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe", and the year stated is "New (1965 replica)." Model is given as "Replica of a 1965 vintage sports car." It is not titled as a historic vehicle (too many restrictions on use), although I was told I could do that if I wished.

Before buying the roller, I went to the local DMV office with the info on the car and they checked for me to see how it would be registered and titled. The office manager wrote all the details on a copy of the MSO and signed it, so when I went back after the car was delivered, I had NO problems.

I don't know about now, but there was a caveat that if it were produced after 1 January 1009, it might be subject to EPA/DOT certification of 50 state registration eligibility. Fortunately, the MSO gave the date of production before 2009.

Cheers and good luck
David