tin-man needs some advice.......

[tin-man]

on driving a SPF 600HP MK111 Cobra with a Roush 511 IRFE engine and automatic transmission. What I am looking for are the basic newbie type driving tips, the do's, dont's and don't even think of, type of driving hints I would need to know to prevent me from getting into trouble with all that power. All advice will be much appreciated and valued.

Thanks in advance guys, my Cobra is due to be ready in November. tin-man

[vector1]

find a big open parking lot and hammer it!!!!!!!!, or experiment as the white man says.

[StewbieC]

When you can smell burning rubber and there's lots of smoke or you're feeling a little dizzy you know it's time to back off a bit.

Sorry couldn't resist!

Drive it like you stole it!

[coosawjack]

I would not have an automatic trans with that much power......"surprise" downshifts can be catastrophic...wet or dry!!!

[tin-man]

Originally Posted by coosawjack

I would not have an automatic trans with that much power......"surprise" downshifts can be catastrophic...wet or dry!!!

coosawjack: *aaaaw S*** too late my friend its a a done deal already, so help me understand:

downshifts can be catastrophic...wet or dry!!!::
tin-man

[skippy]

Originally Posted by coosawjack

"surprise" downshifts can be catastrophic...wet or dry!!!

Yep i second that and im just getting used to mine, even spins in 4th gear.

I would (as i have in the past) taken advance driving courses, its really the only safe approach to it.

Enjoy and keep it straight.

Skip...

[TINNMANN]

If you drive it like there are egg shells between you and the throttle you might be ok. Any abrupt moves either on or off the gas could get interesting. Depending on the stall speed of the converter and the valve body your shifts could be abrupt and brake traction at the worst time!!! I suggest that you join up with a auto cross group and practice running the cones. There is a thread that says "IF YOU TAKE ME FOR GRANTED I WILL KILL YOU" and I think you should repeat that line every time you put the key in the start position.
Cheers Greg

[undy]

drag radials...

[Tommy]

tin-man,
You are wise to pose this question. High powered, light weight, short wheelbase cars have a tendency to break the rear tires loose. When that happens, the rear end can swing out to one side causing the car to change directions very quickly. My car has less power than yours and it will break the rear tires loose simply by pressing the throttle down in third gear. If you were drving at 50 MPH and pressed your gas pedal down far enough to engage the automatic downshift, I strongly suspect the rear tires would break loose making it difficult to steer.

I echo the advice about learning to drive your car at autocross events. These are great for three reasons. First, the environment is much safer than public roads. Second, competition will encourage you to find and exceed the limits of your car (and your driving skills) so you know what is and is not possible to do in your car. Third, you can safely indulge your desire to drive your car hard and fast, so you can resist that desire when you are on public streets. After you have gotten comfortable with autocross, I suggest you try a few track day events so you can see how your car responds in higher speed situations. Good luck with your new car.

[RallySnake]

In the famous words of Sterling Moss:

“It’s better to go into a corner slow and come out fast than it is to go into a corner fast and come out dead.”

In other words, learn to get your braking done before you turn the wheel.

RallySnake

[FredBMOC]

Tin-man,
As a newbie with some track experience my understanding is that the problem with Cobras and even more so with automatic transmissions is a combination of factors including the short wheel base, heavy engine, and way too much power but regarding the automatic transmission the problem is as follows:
When one changes gears in a car the weight distribution of the car changes and either the back or front end instantaneously becomes heavier depending on what gear shift you did ( up or down ). This is fine as long as you are planning on it and in fact is beneficial: for example you come down a straight, brake in a straight line ( putting more weight on the front end for better braking), downshift ( again putting more weight on the front end for better braking), enter the turn and accelerate through the turn (putting more weight on the rear tires for better traction) and keeping the rear end planted on the ground. All as it should be for spirited and track driving..
Now this same process on an automatic car becomes problematic as you can't really control when the shift occurs: you do as I describe above braking but the car doesn't downshift you come to the turn , slow down, the car is weighted and in balance, now you step on the gas and the car downshifts changing the balance of the car, in quick succession first forward as it downshifts than back as you accelerate. These weight redistribution changes can upset the balance of the vehicle and cause it to go into a spin or simply to have you pointed towards the inside or outside of the turn when you were not really planning on it; not a good situation...
Anyway this is a just a very short and simple explanation of some of the issues faced. Add to that the fact that you have an insane power to ratio and can simply brake traction on the rear wheels any time you twitch your foot on the gas and you have a recipe for a challenging vehicle to drive.

Best wishes with your new ride!

Fred

[Tom Wells]

tin-man,

I saw this and am forced to chime in:

"surprise" downshifts can be catastrophic..

I'm not sure what this means. I have a C-6 in my car (built by Carl Rossler, Girard, OH) and can tell you from experience that others warned about this before I got my car.

Here's what my experience says about that: It is speculation based on ignorance, not experience!

I've run my car in autocross, at Roebling Road, Sebring and Daytona to name a few places. I put it in drive and two-foot (one on the brake, one on the gas) and it is heavenly! Others have driven this car on the track and remarked how easy it is to drive, and can go quickly and smoothly.

Those who say "don't do anything sudden" have the correct idea. Concentrate on being smooth and fast will eventually happen.

The most important thing I've learned about the automatic is that it is vital to have the correct torque converter and a really effective trans cooler. I learned this after boiling the fluid out and melting the cooler's fan the first time I ran 30 minute sessions at Sebring. I found a torque converter guy in Deland FL (FTI) who recommended a 9-1/2" converter and a 1600 rpm stall speed, who also assures there is maximum oil flow through the converter. Apparently if oil flow isn't sufficient, not enough cooling can occur in the cooler itself. All I can tell you is that before the converter, trans temps went over 320F in the trans pan, and afterward never exceeded 240F.

So enjoy your auto - it wouldn't surprise me to see more dedicated race cars switching to automatics - oh, wait, some already have!

[JWilly]

This is obviously no secret. Resist the urge to do anything too crazy for at least the first 500 miles. When you do put the right toe down, be damn sure the wheels are straight.

[Silverback51]

Have you considered a manual shift valve body?

[Z-linkCobra]

Most importantly take your time and get to know your car. You need to know which way it wants go when you break the back tires loose. Most of the time the rearend will want to go to the right side becasue the left rear is heavier and has more traction. If you have no experiance what so ever with that kind of H.P.....take some where in a controlled enviroment so you dont hurt yourself or anyone else.

Dropping the hammer running 60 mph and the car wants to get sideways can be a little disturbing if your not sure what to do about it...the last thing you want to do is just chop the throttle, ease out of it and she'll settle down. If you just chop the throttle your liable to be looking at the retaining wall to your right real quick.

[ItBites]

Tin-Man,

I run an auto trans and it has a semi-manual valve body, so it does not downshift by itself when you step on it. This is what used to be called "passing gear" and most performance transmissions either are disabled, or you can leave-off the "kickdown" linkage, which I think was a mechanical linkage for Fords, but I'm not a Ford guy, so i could be wrong about the mechanism. Anyway, if I have it in "D", it will upshift into 2nd and 3rd, but it will only downshift when approaching a stop. I suspect yours is already similarly equipped.

BTW, I also road race my car with the auto trans and it makes it easy to drive. I don't have to heel-toe or match revs, or even shift that often. I can brake with my left foot, which is great for trail braking and transition to power-on. I did have heat issues in the trans fluid until I went with a lower stall (2500 rpm) converter that I had built "tight" by Jim Hughes. I just got back from a track day at Inde Motorsports ranch (2.75 miles, 21 turns, 85 ft of elevation change) and it never got above 230 degF, even in Arizona.

Enjoy your automatic.

[ItBites]

Also, please buy the stickiest tires you can. I have preached here many times that tires are the cheapest way to improve the REAL (not bench-racing) performance of your car. Sticky tires will also save your butt over and over again. I hear a lot of folks saying they break the tires loose in 3rd or 4th - well who cares, that is bench racing. They likely have a poor suspension setup/tune and/or are running poor-traction tires. Try that 3rd gear tire spin against me on a clear straight and I'll walk-off from ya... I run Toyo R888 track tires. They do not last that long, but are much safer and quicker (in reality) than the tires I see many folks running (BFG being the worst). Get sticky tires.

[azfordman]

Originally Posted by tin-man

coosawjack: *aaaaw S*** too late my friend its a a done deal already, so help me understand:

downshifts can be catastrophic...wet or dry!!!::
tin-man

Tin-man, to give you a real life example, although not in a cobra....last month I drove to New Hampshire to pick up my car, driving North out of Boston it had recently rained and I was driving on a uphill grade with the cruise control set at 55 mph (1999 F-150 Lightning, supercharged, automatic transmission) the cruise control kicked in to accelerate along with the supercharger, transmission down shifted, and the rear tires broke loose and started spinning!!! Nothing bad happened, did not go into a major fish tail or anything, but I did learn the lesson that I cannot use cruise control in the rain with this truck. I could imagine the same thing happening in a light car like a cobra. Hope this helps....

[jhv48]

Very simple:

Never floor it unless you are pointed straight have lots of hiway in front and to the side of you, and have both hands on the wheel.

Change underwear and repeat as often as it takes to learn a healthy respect for that engine.

For every other time, go soft on the gas pedal.

[tin-man]

Originally Posted by ItBites

Also, please buy the stickiest tires you can. I have preached here many times that tires are the cheapest way to improve the REAL (not bench-racing) performance of your car. Sticky tires will also save your butt over and over again. I hear a lot of folks saying they break the tires loose in 3rd or 4th - well who cares, that is bench racing. They likely have a poor suspension setup/tune and/or are running poor-traction tires. Try that 3rd gear tire spin against me on a clear straight and I'll walk-off from ya... I run Toyo R888 track tires. They do not last that long, but are much safer and quicker (in reality) than the tires I see many folks running (BFG being the worst). Get sticky tires.

ItBites: thanks for this advice, can you tell me what the storage life on those sticky tires are like. I know you said they don't last too long, which presupposes you are constantlyy driving on them whereas my issue is I will get to drive my Cobra for two weeks at a time in Summer and Winter, the rest of the time its in storage in my garage. Being the case, am I likely to develop flat spots on the sticky tires? tin-man