What if Chevrolet had said yes to Shelby and built the Cobra ?

Alan P. · #1 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 08:27 AM

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My first Cobra was chevy powered and built in 1993 by Lanky Foushee, owner and long time crew chief of Group 44 Race Team. He bought the Race shop from Bob Tulius when they stopped racing around 1990. Lanky and John Lyster, the body man at Group 44, (they later started 'Country Cobra' using C4 Corvette suspensions )offered to build me a Dax Cobra to their own specification. They had just finished a Birdcage Maserati Tipo 61 that was featured in Road and Track magazine and wanted to get in the Cobra business.The deal we made was that if I put 50% down prior to the build he would include a L-88 motor that they had at the shop. Lanky is a big Chevy guy and as he put it, had Chevy taken Shelby up on his offer and given him the only engine at the time making a hp per cubic inch (283/283) the later 427SC would have been an L-88 powered Cobra. Guys, I have a Superformance GT40R and a early Hi-Tech 289 FIA Cobra, both with Ford motors, but that L-88 Cobra was bloody fast. There was a easy 100 hp difference between a stock Side Oiler and a L-88.
I ended up selling it to the Gardner Britt, the owner of Ted Britt Ford in Va., and he displayed it on his showroom floor. With the hood locked of course.
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jolsen42 · #2 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 09:07 AM

But they didn't. John O

Excaliber · #3 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 09:07 AM

We have an example of what would have happened in the Buick GNX. When the V6 powered car started going FASTER than the current Vette, GM slapped it down. They would never allow ANY of the marques under their control to exceed the performance of their flagship Vette. Then, or now...

*13* · #4 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 09:13 AM

My thoughts exactly. It had to be Ford.

Tommy · #5 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 09:15 AM

I suppose that if a Chevy powered Cobra had become the real performance sports car for GM, the Corvette would have followed the path of the original Thunderbird and would have become a four door luxury cruiser before ultimately falling by the wayside. Perhaps the Cheetah would have emerged with a Ford engine and we'd be up to our armpits in Cheetah replicas today.

*13* · #6 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 09:19 AM

The lines of the cobra body made it an icon. It's race history & performance kept it in our minds.

Alan P. · #7 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 09:29 AM

I believe only Ford would have spent the money needed to succeed in racing with both the Cobra and the GT40, and the common denominator is Shelby.
But what if ?? Would Ford have pushed harder to purchase Ferrari in April of 1963 and made that deal stick if suddenly Chevrolet had a European sports car cleaning up at the race track ?
How would that have changed race history as we know it. There may not have ever been a GT350 Mustang, and 4 LeMans wins with the GT40(MKI,MKII and J car)

jwd · #8 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

We have an example of what would have happened in the Buick GNX. When the V6 powered car started going FASTER than the current Vette, GM slapped it down. They would never allow ANY of the marques under their control to exceed the performance of their flagship Vette. Then, or now...

That was a 1 year limited production car and the plan had long been in place to return the Regal to a luxury car with front wheel drive. It had absolutely nothing to do with its performance vs. the Corvette. Corvette is GM's flagship baby. The ZR1 happens to be the fastest production car in America.

Excaliber · #9 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 10:44 AM

JWD, GM's embarrasement over that was profound! No question Buick was slapped up-side the head and quickly returned to "mundane" status. Why the nerve of those guys threatening the Vette. Pontiac tried that many time over the years, oh yeah, they got slapped down as well. Don't mess with the Vette. Shelby Cobra would not have had a chance at development.

In modern times the new Cadillac could have a shot at besting Vette development, 0-60 or 1/4 mile ET times. Never happen, GM would never allow it, then or now.

The problem with the Cheetah is the body style. OK, sure it looks great, but it aint no AC body style. I do believe the "look and shape" of the Cobra body is a huge part of it's following. Some styles will be always be a classic look. Mustang, early Jaguar XKE, Cobra. Some are just timeless. I'm not sure that could be said about the Cheetah.

jwd · #10 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

J
In modern times the new Cadillac could have a shot at besting Vette development, 0-60 or 1/4 mile ET times. Never happen, GM would never allow it, then or now.

Interesting. The new Caddy and the Corvette are built in the same plant using the same platform. There is no reason to have them compete because they are for two totally different markets.

Excaliber · #11 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 11:13 AM

Well lets hope those Caddy shack fellows understand that and don't pull a "fast one" on the Vette when their not looking.

Of course the Buick GNX really could not compete with the Vette on any level, and it was almost a "fluke" that it happened. As I recall it was the trans shifting point compared to the Vette shifting point that enabled the Buick to make a slightly better 0-60 mph time. Over all the Vette really was faster across the board,,, not to mention handling.

Ah the power of the "0-60 mph" numbers, pretty much trumps all other numbers. Run low on Sunday, sell on Monday!

With todays modern cars the 0-60 mph run does not quite hold the mystique it used to, but it's still a significant number when it comes to sales.

Snakebit · #12 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 11:16 AM

I don't see why Caddy is persuing the performance market. 90% of the people that drive a Caddy have white hair, barely see over the steering wheel, and always drive 10 to 15 miles under the speed limit!

Three Peaks · #13 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 11:22 AM

If Chevy had taken on the Cobra when Shelby asked, perhaps they would have developed an engine with the front distributor sooner?

67JET · #14 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 11:46 AM

I thought I had an all origional GM powered Shelby Cobra replica in my garage. What am I missing? I am a GM guy at heart but there has always been something about them Cobras. I think it wouldn't be the same if GM would have stepped up. It had to be Ford.

*13* · #15 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 09:34 PM

If there were no FORD/SHELBY/AC Cobra it's likely Chevrolet would have assumed Ferrari unbeatable & left it at that. The fact that Shelby built such a competitor with a Ford motor to best even the Corvette lit a fire under their ass to develop the super corvette (Grand Sport). Tough to say where the american racing world world would be. Probably exactly where is is now, Nascar & Top Fuel, but with much less depth in the history dept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan P.

I believe only Ford would have spent the money needed to succeed in racing with both the Cobra and the GT40, and the common denominator is Shelby.
But what if ?? Would Ford have pushed harder to purchase Ferrari in April of 1963 and made that deal stick if suddenly Chevrolet had a European sports car cleaning up at the race track ?
How would that have changed race history as we know it. There may not have ever been a GT350 Mustang, and 4 LeMans wins with the GT40(MKI,MKII and J car)

Excaliber · #16 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 09:47 PM

Shelby tried to cut a deal with Donald Healey as well, and wanted to use an Olds engine in the begining.

What a bastard child that would have been! A Healey with an 800 pound big block Olds in front.

*13* · #17 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 09:51 PM

Imagine trying to stop that thing.

Excaliber · #18 (**permalink**) 10-08-2010, 10:08 PM

Ya know that small block Chevy, that would have been a 283 or 327 at the time, weighed about 700 pounds. Motors were really heavy back then, thats why Fords new light weight small block 221 cid (260-289-302 later) was something special. You could say the same about the 427 FE as well. While we think they are heavy today, back then it was a light weight!

Jac Mac · #19 (**permalink**) 10-09-2010, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Shelby tried to cut a deal with Donald Healey as well, and wanted to use an Olds engine in the begining.

What a bastard child that would have been! A Healey with an 800 pound big block Olds in front.

I thought the engine being considered was the F85 Olds, 3500cc, all alloy, ended up as the Rover/Range Rover deal, around 330 lb or so IIRC. Might have been a winner as I think Phil Remington had already been playing with these at the Scarab Factory, which of course was where Shelby set up shop.

YerDugliness · #20 (**permalink**) 10-09-2010, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jac Mac

I thought the engine being considered was the F85 Olds, 3500cc, all alloy, ended up as the Rover/Range Rover deal, around 330 lb or so IIRC. Might have been a winner as I think Phil Remington had already been playing with these at the Scarab Factory, which of course was where Shelby set up shop.

Jac, would that engine have had any relationship to the Buick 215 CID aluminum engine? I had a '62 Buick "Special" with that engine in it, it was pretty peppy, and I saw a lot of component cars using them in the past.

Cheers!

Doug