Clutch slave

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by tkb289

(Tony ... not to hijack the thread too much ... )

Patrick,

Is there a limitation with the FIA that would preclude use of an external slave cylinder ?

At one time (like five years ago) I'm pretty sure the ERA FIAs had to have HTOBs. I thought they had fixed that though; but I could be wrong. Personally, I would hate to have to use a HTOB.

[twobjshelbys]

I have been slammed at work and haven't had any time to work on this. The weather was nice today so I decided to get it to the shop. I was not able to get from anyone what the configuration is, and now that HST is closed we'll never know unless we take it apart.

So, I'd like to re-do this. Any suggestions? I'm going to stay with internal components though, not going to try to cut into or buy a new bell housing to switch to external slave.

Edit: I forgot to add - I was looking at the Tilton HTOB and it's within the parameters if it will fit without having to remodel the connection to the trans.

[Rick Parker]

Other than the bracket being made of aluminum (OEM was Steel) this is how 289's were done on the original cars. Same setup as on a Tiger too, works flawlessly. I am using a Long style pressure plate (Several coil springs in lieu of diaphram spring) and T10 4 speed. I believe 427's used the same slave but with a different bracket.

[IMG][/IMG]


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Tony you probably have a McLeod HTOB, the early ones had a real problem, later design were reportedly improved.



http://www.mcleodracing.com/images_products/5192.jpg

[Mdman352]

Does anyone know where the bracket for the FE can be obtained and which slave cylnder?? part # would be nice.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

Tony you probably have a McLeod HTOB, the early ones had a real problem, later design were reportedly improved.

Likely. He hasn't pulled it yet but thinks it is a McLeod (not Tilton). Brent has graciously offered to "consult". Should know more about the plan of attack next week.

[twobjshelbys]

I got a call this morning. It looks like with help from Brent and Mike Forte that an external slave solution is on its way! I just needed to stop being a tweener. Once Garry talked to Brent it was obvious what the problem was and that Mike had the solution! Yipee!

Getting it home might be dicey. Last weekend and today it was in the 70's. Now it's snow (and cold) coming later this week with highs in the 40's for the remainder of the 10 day forecast. Not only the cold but the snow will mean gravel and other crap on the roads until spring.

[Frank Messina]

Congratulations on getting together with Mike Forte to fix your problem Tony. Mike is The Best. Oddly enough a friend of mine is going through this exact same drama for the second time with a McLeod HTB in his GT-40. The last failure struck a week ago as we crested Topanga Canyon heading for PCH. I've been telling him to call Mike Forte for the real fix but I think he and his installer (it's a Superformance) are trying to contain costs by fixing what he has. I should tell him to read this. Seems like McLeod has a bit of a record of releasing faulty parts. A few years ago it was the steel bell housings that were making everybody crazy because the starter hole was screwed up due to the starter knockout being welded in wrong. Now it's the HTB that they claim is because of a bad batch of O rings they bought. That may account for the first one but we've been debating the second one. Hopefully they'll come up with a plan as good as yours.
Frank

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Frank Messina

Congratulations on getting together with Mike Forte to fix your problem Tony. Mike is The Best. Oddly enough a friend of mine is going through this exact same drama for the second time with a McLeod HTB in his GT-40. The last failure struck a week ago as we crested Topanga Canyon heading for PCH. I've been telling him to call Mike Forte for the real fix but I think he and his installer (it's a Superformance) are trying to contain costs by fixing what he has. I should tell him to read this. Seems like McLeod has a bit of a record of releasing faulty parts. A few years ago it was the steel bell housings that were making everybody crazy because the starter hole was screwed up due to the starter knockout being welded in wrong. Now it's the HTB that they claim is because of a bad batch of O rings they bought. That may account for the first one but we've been debating the second one. Hopefully they'll come up with a plan as good as yours.
Frank

I was going to try to contain costs by repairing the existing one, and hearing that McLeod knows about this I just called their tech dept which is closed, but the chances are I will make the switch to conventional old style technology unless they offer a transferrable warranty if it fails again. I'm still trying to sell it and won't leave this unresolved.

[mickmate]

The newer style Mcleod HTOB have a contained piston that I don't believe can be overstroked. That by the way comes from not following the set up procedure right the first time with the old styles.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by mickmate

The newer style Mcleod HTOB have a contained piston that I don't believe can be overstroked. That by the way comes from not following the set up procedure right the first time with the old styles.

The issue seems to be more related to an eccentricity/misalignment/runout problem that overextending. This seemed to be more consistent with the nature of the failure he saw. Garry seemed to think that it was not being overstroked. I haven't been up there (it's an hour one way) to see for myself.

[blykins]

Glad that we were able to help you out. A lot of the forum venders like to try to cut at each other (especially me ), but when a guy needs parts, he needs parts...

Just to let everyone know, I do have the slave cylinder/mounting bracket kits (nice black powdercoated brackets too), but I'm just out of stock at the moment. They are $199, including the brackets and the slave cylinder.

[mickmate]

If a QT bellhousing is that far out of alignment I'll be surprised.

[twobjshelbys]

I spoke with McLeod tech support. He did say that there was a gasket/seal/o-ring problem a few months ago but that should be fixed by now. They offered to rebuild the unit but I told them we'd already rebuilt it once and that I wasn't going to trust it again but replacing it with an external slave setup. I told him there was a fairly high level of frustration here with this setup and that I wasn't the only one having problems. Afterwards I was wishing I could have the 10 minutes of my life back.

Here's what it looks like.

[jimstephens]

CNC external slave and a 7/8 Tilton master worked great on mine and everything is easy to access if it needs and attention.

[twobjshelbys]

Yippee! It's back home again.

With the help of Garry at Lundstedt Automotive in Ft. Collins (who also whipped the fuel injection into submission) and Brent Lykins and Mike Forte's kit, the transformation to old style technology is complete. Unfortunately they didn't have an open lift when I picked it up this morning so I wasn't able to get pictures. I'll have to put it up on jack stands to put the seats and stuff back again so I'll get some then (probably over Christmas weekend). The driver's set is just sitting there and I didn't have any harnesses installed but I took it for a quick spin (to put 22.8 gallons of gas in the 23 gallon tank ) and boy does it feel nice.

To summarize the whole clutch system was replaced. The McLeod HTOB was ditched, Mike Forte's external slave and a new bigger bore master.

Still for sale, but at least it's correct.

[mikeforte]

Hi Tony,
I'm glad I could get this all back together and driving. I know so many that have had failed hydraulic throw out bearings I have developed so many external slave/fork setups I would have to think of all of the applications.
429-460 Ford
FE Ford
SB Ford
Nailhead Buick,
GM Olds Pontiac
Chevrolet
T-56 Magnum & more coming as I find need.

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Yippee! It's back home again.

With the help of Garry at Lundstedt Automotive in Ft. Collins (who also whipped the fuel injection into submission) and Brent Lykins and Mike Forte's kit, the transformation to old style technology is complete. Unfortunately they didn't have an open lift when I picked it up this morning so I wasn't able to get pictures. I'll have to put it up on jack stands to put the seats and stuff back again so I'll get some then (probably over Christmas weekend). The driver's set is just sitting there and I didn't have any harnesses installed but I took it for a quick spin (to put 22.8 gallons of gas in the 23 gallon tank ) and boy does it feel nice.

To summarize the whole clutch system was replaced. The McLeod HTOB was ditched, Mike Forte's external slave and a new bigger bore master.

Still for sale, but at least it's correct.

[twobjshelbys]

I got all of the inside put back together yesterday. Only one missing and one extra screw It's easier to put seats and stuff if you can get underneath so I put it up on jack stands, which also gave me the opportunity to snap a few shots of the external slave setup.



Mike's logo is milled into the mounting bracket.



It really made a difference in the way the clutch engages. It's very snappy at the top and getting it into reverse is easier than I recall.

Thanks again Brent and Mike!

[xlr8or]

You will be very happy with the Forte setup. Mike makes some great parts. I have used his setup on two cars now and will use it again.