Shelby CSX price increase!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Why I'm quietly polishing the magnesium for the winter--hammer away you three! You are all obviously having a very learned discussion-carry on!

I hope to be nosily polishing my magnesium in 2011. Let me rephrase that. I hope to be admiring my magnesium in the garage in 2011.

I'm staying out of the learned discussion. Patrick is just screwing around. Again.

[RichardCSX6000]

I rode Harleys all my life...even before I was cool. I notice now that everyone compairs their bikes to Harleys, they all try to look like a Harley, sound like a Harley, dress like Harley ridders and then tell everyone why they did not buy a Harley???

[Excaliber]

We cannot always rely on the strict definition of words or terms, as they tend to change over time and with use.

Example being the term, "replica", very few "Cobra's" meet the strict definiton of the word, which is an exacting replication of an original. And yet, we frequently use the term "replica" to describe our cars, even if they have a GM engine under the hood! Fair enough.

"Kit" may fall under a similiar troubling definition, certainly it seems to carry a negative connotation. "Roller" seems to be the "new term on the block", along with "continuation", both are fitting and accurate as it pertains to several different models, BDR being one.

Never the less, I won't rule out the term "kit", as what ever replica it is, it is not complete from the originating factory and some assembly is still required to finish it. Some "kits" are just more complete than others...

What Shelby did in the 60's was not a "kit", not a "roller", not a "replica", certainly not a "continuation". It was a Federally approved complete vehicle leaving the Shelby factory as a fully assembled and ready to drive vehicle. Much like the Series 1 was supposed to be. A modern Shelby in every sense of the word, no "clarification" of what it was, was required, back in the day or with the modern Series 1 edition.

The Cobra, ANY Cobra being built today, needs a LOT of clarification. A lengthy discussion to determine where it fit's within the market place, it's heritage, it's birth right. BDR is no exception to that "law" (call it "Ernies Law").

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

No, it's licensed.

If this were a discussion on another product it would not be so difficult. How about a football jersey? There's original, genuine, licensed, and replicas...

But "the man" has no more day-to-day involvement in building CSX cars than SPF cars. Why can he not lend his name to one and have it have the same effect as the other?

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I'm staying out of the learned discussion. Patrick is just screwing around. Again.

Me too- but pay attention! It's like a school bus going through a convent-you can't look away.
There are obviously no heavy weight Shelby Snobs to carry the fight and one very unexpected oracle who may create the defining moment in the 'Shelbys-vs-all-the-other-crap-fakers-out-there' controversy.

[Stentor]

Originally Posted by patrickt

But "the man" has no more day-to-day involvement in building CSX cars than SPF cars. Why can he not lend his name to one and have it have the same effect as the other?

Pat,

I think you are onto something. There might be a huge arbitrage opportunity for you with this. Vis-a-vis the Shelby CSX price increase, you could buy up as many new SPF rollers (or "kits"--if Ernie is reading this) as possible, and then sell them on the market at $5k below the new Shelby price for CSX cars (positioning the SPFs as "authentic" Cobras that are licensed by Shelby).

You could probably sell the SPFs at the same price as the CSXs if you added dual roll bars with that authentic-style foam padding!

[OZCOBRA]

Surely a warranted rise considering their $700K value DOWNUNDER ...http://www.clubcobra.com/classifieds...uct=3360&cat=2...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by OZCOBRA

Surely a warranted rise considering their $700K value DOWNUNDER ...http://www.clubcobra.com/classifieds...uct=3360&cat=2...

That was one of the sadder "for sales" I've seen in recent memory. It was too sad to even begin ribbing the poor bastard.

[OZCOBRA]

Agree a bad deal ....Hopefully the party involved gets a favourable outcome...sounds like it still has some legs !!

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by patrickt

But "the man" has no more day-to-day involvement in building CSX cars than SPF cars. Why can he not lend his name to one and have it have the same effect as the other?

Under the skin bro... pretty simple really. Name the 5 top criteria that make it genuine... I bet the guy has more than anyone else.

Should encourage him to build cars instead of lawsuits.

It's all good and a better approach. Most of this is simple posturing by owners of kits to put theirs higher on the food chain.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Under the skin bro... pretty simple really.

So if Shelby declared the SPF licensed cars to be "Genuine Shelby Cobras" they still would not be because of things like the radiator, pedals, and the like?

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by patrickt

So if Shelby declared the SPF licensed cars to be "Genuine Shelby Cobras" they still would not be because of things like the radiator, pedals, and the like?

Can discuss that if he does. He won't. It's really easier then you are making it.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Can discuss that if he does. He won't. It's really easier then you are making it.

Will CSX cars made after his death still be real, genuine, Shelby Cobras?

[slider701]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Will CSX cars made after his death still be real, genuine, Shelby Cobras?

Even when he dies I'm sure they will just prop him up like the guy in "Weekends at Bernie's" and parade him around to Barrett Jackson and SAAC events

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Will CSX cars made after his death still be real, genuine, Shelby Cobras?

Yes CSX cars will be genuine Shelby cars, because after all they are made by Shelby

Call 'em 2010 Shelby Cobras if you have to. The reality is the laws and regulations have changed and that is the only thing keeping turnkey Shelby Cobras from rolling off an assembly line.

For the record I consider a round tube frame far more important in the authenticity department then a slanted radiator. But I consider a value priced car with a better layout from a driving perspective even more important than that. So my posts are as weightless as yours or the knight who always says ni

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Yes CSX cars will be genuine Shelby cars, because after all they are made by Shelby

Alright, we'll take it to its logical end.... Shelby dies, and the stock of the Shelby Corporation is sold to a group of French investors. The production of CSX cars continue, but they "ease" back some of the authentic points. They even begin using a rectangular frame. Still a "real, genuine, Shelby Cobra?"

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Alright, we'll take it to its logical end.... Shelby dies, and the stock of the Shelby Corporation is sold to a group of French investors. The production of CSX cars continue, but they "ease" back some of the authentic points. They even begin using a rectangular frame. Still a "real, genuine, Shelby Cobra?"

You are asking about the future, which either you nor I can accurately predict. We can however let the man sell his genuine cars today, because by any real stretch of the stick that is what they are and distinct from all others for that fact alone.

When he goes we will see what happens. Let's hope the brand goes on as an American enterprise that pays homage to the heritage of the name. If it goes another way then so be it.

If the cars are selling, or outselling others then it speaks volumes.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Alright, we'll take it to its logical end.... Shelby dies, and the stock of the Shelby Corporation is sold to a group of French investors. The production of CSX cars continue, but they "ease" back some of the authentic points. They even begin using a rectangular frame. Still a "real, genuine, Shelby Cobra?"

Is a Dodge made by Fiat a Dodge?

[Excaliber]

Enzo died,,, they still call 'em Ferrari's.

...laws and regulations have changed and that is the only thing keeping turnkey Shelby Cobras from rolling off an assembly line.

Well all the replica manufacturers have that problem, or perhaps we would see a rather large number of manufacturers offering completed cars! Excalibur used too, Aurora, Auto Kraft, all met the same fate, Federal laws.

That term replica (and replicar) appears very often on the SPF company website in reference to their car, no shame, nor should there be! A "license" add's credibility and in theory "value" to any given product. A licensed product does not have to be the original product built by the same people, place or business as the original. It is not and never will be an "authentic" anything other than a licensed product.

China bought the brand name "Schwinn". They market a number of products under that name, including mopeds. Having owned/operated a moped sales and service shop I know that moped well. It's built with the same parts virtually ALL Chinese mopeds are built with. It's no more or less reliable than any other typical Chinese moped, but it sure SELLS for a premium price! Looks better too, deeper shine on the plastic, painted wheels, "replica" Honda 50 cc motor. The motors on Chinese bikes are actually pretty darn good, it's much more likely the wheels WILL FALL OFF before the motor goes out.

Is it still a Schwinn? Yeah, legally, not that I'd recommend anyone buy one, get a cheap Chinese moped instead, same thing, less money...

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Enzo died,,, they still call 'em Ferrari's.



That term replica (and replicar) appears very often on the SPF company website in reference to their car, no shame, nor should there be! A "license" add's credibility and in theory "value" to any given product. A licensed product does not have to be the original product built by the same people, place or business as the original. It is not and never will be an "authentic" anything other than a licensed product.

Ford died and they still call them Fords, too.


You beat me to this:

"The GT40 continuation is built to exacting standards - in fact over two thirds of the rolling chassis's parts are interchangeable with that of an original car, including the 'monocoque" style chassis.

"

If people want to change the language - continuation, roller, kit, and others - then take it up with the industry.

Oh, here we go again, again... Can't we find another religious issue to talk about? What color should a Cobra be? for example?