Shelby CSX price increase!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

I wonder if Shelby dropped their price by $10k (so $39,995), rather than increasing it, whether they'd pick up a enough customers currently buying BDR's, SPF's and ERA's to generate enough sales that their overall margin would increase or whether lower sales at a higher price still results in better a better overall margin. Wonder how price elastic the demand is for CSX cars?

I know that Shelby generally is pursuing a strategy of reducing its auto sales business and focusing on parts, but it is an interesting question.

That's an excellent question, but the CSX is believed by many/most to be the "top of the line" Cobra in our segment of the industry and would probably sully their name and added premium by reducing the price of the CSX to levels of their "competitiors."

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by BT SNAKE

Here is just another what if..... What if there was
another replica that was exactly like the fiberglass
Cobras Shelby sells. Down to the last nut, bolt and screw. And they were 40K instead of their old price of 50K. Now are you telling me they would still sell more of the Shelbys because of the name and CSX?
Hersh

Originally Posted by rodneym

Jeez, Hersh. You with your "what ifs".

That is an intriguing question. I've seen this scenario done with guitars and watches. You could get an Ollech & Wajs watch made with NOS Breitling Navitimer parts, in effect buying a NOS Breitling for less than a new 'Real' Breitling. And the Ollech & Wajs will have the period correct movement. To watch fanatics 'in the know', it's better (in a vintage sense) than a new Breitling. All of us know Breitling but who would investigate an Ollech & Wajs?
Perhaps more of 'us' would buy the identical 'CSX' knockoff, but not Anthony!
Won't the Riverside Racers FIA fit this category?

rodneym

Actually, it's not a "what if", it's more of a "what happened to it". It's been done already. The company was called "High Tech / Hi-Tech" in Phoenix, AZ, that went bankrupt a while back. That car basically became the CSX4000 car, as Tom D'Antonio from Hi-Tech went to work for Shelby to start the CSX4000 series, and Hi-Tech continued to operate for a while under Tim Gunning.

BTW, I haven't heard of those watches before, but, can you give me some contact info, so I can have my buyer purchase a case of 50 or more of them for my collection?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

That's an excellent question, but the CSX is believed by many/most to be the "top of the line" Cobra in our segment of the industry and would probably sully their name and added premium by reducing the price of the CSX to levels of their "competitiors."

You can't reduce the cost of the glass shelby to that of the competitors, because the parts to build the Shelby are more expensive than the competitors. If you want original spec suspension, higher end gauges, original spec frame, it's going to cost more than to use/modify existing suspension parts from other passenger cars (either new or used) like all of the competitors, and even if they use their own design that's not original spec. It will almost always cost more to build an original spec cobra unless you go exotic.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You can't reduce the cost of the glass shelby to that of the competitors, because the parts to build the Shelby are more expensive than the competitors. If you want original spec suspension, higher end gauges, original spec frame, it's going to cost more than to use/modify existing suspension parts from other passenger cars (either new or used) like all of the competitors, and even if they use their own design that's not original spec. It will almost always cost more to build an original spec cobra unless you go exotic.

You're making an assumption since none of us have seen a cost per unit report from any manufacturer. Maybe SPF, BDR, ERA or whoever spend more on their bodies. Further, using ERA as an example, I think the ERA uses some very nice new parts. Just a guess, but then that's all any of us can do.

BTW, PANAVIA purchased his CSX 4985 from a dealer for right around $41K-42K.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

BTW, PANAVIA purchased his CSX 4985 from a dealer for right around $41K-42K.

A little bit of luck and excellent timing by Steve. BTW - Should he ever sell the car, I'm sure he won't mine if the cost basis for the roller fades off in to the archives of CC forever.

[Mark IV]

[quote=Anthony;1085241]. If you want original spec suspension, higher end gauges, original spec frame, it's going to cost more than to use/modify existing suspension parts from other passenger cars (either new or used) like all of the competitors, and even if they use their own design that's not original spec. QUOTE]

Superformance does not use "parts from an existing passenger car" in their products. The components they use are equally costly as what is used on the CSX cars. That alone does not justify the selection of one over an another. As Hi Tech (the manufacturer) builds both Superformance products and some of the CSX cars, they alone would know the exact cost differences although my guess would be it is not $10,000 worth of cost.

Buy what you can afford and what makes you happy..................

[BT SNAKE]

Hey Rodney, them what ifs are working pretty good Huh?
Anthony, I used to live three miles from Hi-Tech in Tempe, Az. I was down there buggin" those guys all the time.
I do know who owns the tooling from Hi-Tech and it ain't anywhere near Shelby or Vegas.
On the cost factor of parts used are better than most other manufacturers does not hold water. There are limited suppliers for many items so you have all the manufacturers buying many parts from the same company. One big example is frames and glass, brake lights, and a lot of other small items. Besides if Shelby payed twice as much for those items it wouldn't come close to an extra 10K. As far as A arms and suspension goes
there are many that do use OEM stuff but more make their own and most of those are steel. I believe the CNC A arms are an option. I don't know what they cost.
Now if you are saying that Shelby uses the best of the best and newest in technology and the finest in materials and labor then you might have something... but I don't believe that to be the case with Cobras. At least not in the labor aspect.

Hersh

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by Learjockey1

For a perspective, I am reading Cobra The Shelby American Archives (62-65) by Dave Friedman and on page 34, they have an invoice dated April 7 1964 for CSX 2393 no engine, silver, with red trim top and tonneau, rack/pinion. It cost Ford 778 Pounds about $1,500 US in 64. I did not check equivalency in 2010.

United Kingdom, 1963 - 1964

One US dollar equals=

1963 0.3571 British Pound
1964 0.3582 British Pound

or effectively around 3 dollars per pound

[mickmate]

Stephen that's "Rosso" red.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by Anthony

BTW, I haven't heard of those watches before, but, can you give me some contact info, so I can have my buyer purchase a case of 50 or more of them for my collection?

50? Is that all?
If you check out this page http://www.gnomonwatches.com/Aviation.htm
it'll show a line called 'Aviation' by Ollech & Wajs. These watches are made of NOS Breitling parts from the 70's. These are Breitling time machines. For the WIS (Watch Idiot Savants - self proclaimed badge of honor), these watches are finer than the ubiquitous Valjoux 7750 movements that are in most every brand, from swiss watches ranging from $2,000 to $15,000.
If there was a Cobra equivalent, I don't know what it is. Well, I guess Shelby did have a story about old frames he found (and McCluskey looked SO guilty in those old photos). But, if Breitling kept these parts and put them back in the market.....big bucks (relatively).

I think future watch questions should be PM'd.

rodneym

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by BT SNAKE

Hey Rodney, them what ifs are working pretty good Huh? Hersh

Yes, Hersh.
YOUR 'what ifs' have ME working overtime!

Now, if someone will only talk vintage Fender guitars with me....

rodneym

[FredBMOC]

IMO Shelby American believes their cars are originals and worth more than "kits or replicas" and probably rightly so believe that most of the buying public doesn't really know/understand or even care about the full history of Shelby to even form their own opinion as to wether this is true or not so they can get and deserve (in their rationale) the premium over other brands.
To most of this buying public that do not take the time to investigate the brands, a 2010 "new Shelby " for $80k and up is a bargain compared with a 1965 for $500k to $1.0m? I certainly think so!
All of you fine gentleman here at CC, do exactly the opposite; you spend far too much time and effort (i'm in this phase right now myself) investigating these cars, their history and their heritage and have come to your own understanding about the validity of the Shelby assertions and for this reason you see this issue differently than most of the buying public and that is why most of you (and me) are all not lining up to buy a Shelby. Time will tell if Shelby's strategy is sound or rubbish but at the end of the day I don't think the $10k will make all of that much difference... To most people this a 2nd, 3rd or 4th car purchase and totally dependent on emotion and disposable income rather than rational thinking so once you want the car ( and YOU KNOW THAT YOU WANT ONE! ) there is little to do but to surrender and get one
I honestly hope Shelby sells lots of them at extra $10K; it would be great for the whole industry and for the bottom line of all of the manufacturers

[Ken Oikawa]

Originally Posted by rodneym

50? Is that all?
If you check out this page http://www.gnomonwatches.com/Aviation.htm
it'll show a line called 'Aviation' by Ollech & Wajs. These watches are made of NOS Breitling parts from the 70's. These are Breitling time machines. For the WIS (Watch Idiot Savants - self proclaimed badge of honor), these watches are finer than the ubiquitous Valjoux 7750 movements that are in most every brand, from swiss watches ranging from $2,000 to $15,000.
If there was a Cobra equivalent, I don't know what it is. Well, I guess Shelby did have a story about old frames he found (and McCluskey looked SO guilty in those old photos). But, if Breitling kept these parts and put them back in the market.....big bucks (relatively).

I think future watch questions should be PM'd.

rodneym

Here's an ad from gnomonwatches website for a Cosmonaute...

'Watch Specifications:
Movement: New Old Stock Valjoux Calibre 7736 mechanical movement. Luminance: Tritium. Dial: Arabic numerals. 3 Chronograph subdials. Slider rule.'

It seems Breitling modified a Valjoux movement to suit their watches just like Rolex modified Valjoux for their early Daytonas. 6238-6265.

Cheers....

[kayakjack]

Originally Posted by FredBMOC

I honestly hope Shelby sells lots of them at extra $10K; it would be great for the whole industry and for the bottom line of all of the manufacturers

Hey, I hope he sells a lot of them for lots of money too. I hope my neighbor sells his house for $500,000 more than I think it is worth. Helps the value of my car (and my house). When I go to buy another one - not so much.

I just don't think in these economic times this is a great business move. Two reasons:

1. I don't think the pricing of a Shelby with a CSX number is elastic enough. Many people who would buy at the lower price will look elsewhere.

2. If you jack the price up and people look around they will see Kirkham. If they compare them, many would say they prefer the better car (Kirkham) than the CSX serial number. I would be one of them. Shelby is just one more person making cars that look like this (as has been proven in several court cases).

Jack

[Dan Stryffeler]

Selling price has no direct relationship to cost (except your sales price had better cover all your costs )

Selling price is determined by what the market will bear...


If Shelby can capitalize on the $10k price increase, he's made the right move.

In an earlier post, a comment was made to the effect of "if dealers sell below (the new price) they will loose thier license." Can any lawyers chime in - isn't that a legal problem?

I remember Shebly taking some heat from consumers becuase dealers (Ford) were cranking prices on his mustangs way over sticker price and his comments were that sell price is beyond his control.

- Dan

[cobrakiwi]

I all so hope Shelby sells lots of cars at the higher price, (hopefully this may be a sign the economy may be coming right and the cobra is still popular). I think choosing between manufactures is no different than choosing paint, some people must have that code correct color with the right lay out of strips others do not. Some must have that CSX number some not. Some people must have the closest thing to the original cars they can afford. It would be cool to see how many people have traded up to a CSX car verses selling a CSX car for one of the other manufactures and why?

Cheers

[greg schroeder]

+10K increase seems reasonable if the dollar is devalued as it is right now. Inflation to those spending USD will follow.

The idea of an increase in my perception puts the buyer of a CSX in a position wanting something that is Shelby rather than any of the other replica Cobras out there. I think it's a nice way to keep the cars as a specialty rather than a car for bargain shoppers.

If the plan was to save money and end up with a better car in quality, design and durability maybe get a Toyota for 20K.

[ACademic]

Originally Posted by Dan Stryffeler

If Shelby can capitalize on the $10k price increase, he's made the right move.

Place a Ollech & Wajs in the glove box and it might peak my interest.

[JWilly]

The idea of an increase in my perception puts the buyer of a CSX in a position wanting something that is Shelby rather than any of the other replica Cobras out there. I think it's a nice way to keep the cars as a specialty rather than a car for bargain shoppers.

Greg Schroeder pretty much nailed it for me. When I purchased a CSX 4000/6000, I did so because I wanted something that is a Shelby and the Mustang does not speak to me. There really was no other reason, rationalization or consideration that meant anything to me other than I wanted a Shelby.

[RodKnock]

[quote=greg schroeder;1085371The idea of an increase in my perception puts the buyer of a CSX in a position wanting something that is Shelby rather than any of the other replica Cobras out there. I think it's a nice way to keep the cars as a specialty rather than a car for bargain shoppers.

If the plan was to save money and end up with a better car in quality, design and durability maybe get a Toyota for 20K.[/QUOTE]

BTW, Toyota just announced another recall.

That's me! A bargain shopper. I'm the one who shows up to the local Wal-Mart at 5:00 AM on the day after Thanksgiving looking for the that extra 10% discount on gift wrap paper.